Water Leak !! Bugger.......

[NewCanalBoy]

Well I untied the lines today and ready to push off and loads of water was being pumped out the side. Most strange.

 

I had only just started the engine but it's not a raw cooled engine. Damn 

 

Obviously the bilge pump. It's never gone off, it's always bone dry where it sits.

 

Went to check and there's about an inch of water in there !! It's in the rear most part of the interior compartment.

 

It seemed like it was just fresh water so a bit of a relief !!

 

Anyhow I checked all round the front water tank getting in down below and no signs of any dampness, main pump dry, floor dry.

 

Next the shower room, inspection hatch revealed bone dry floor, no evidence of anything.

 

Next the kitchen sink/taps, bone dry, again no evidence or water marks.

 

Back to where the bilge pump is next door is the hot water tank, small signs of dampness but not much.

 

It can be the only place I'm sure.

 

Anyway, I emptied the bow tank rather than it appear in the boat. Next I started to drain the hot water tank a bit.

 

But then I stopped, if I empty every tank then I'm not going to find the leak am I ?! Is there a way of pressuring the system to find a leak ? It may not be from water tanks but find it hard to believe it would be rain water getting in.

[Onewheeler]

Stern gland? Is it water cooled?

[NewCanalBoy]

5 minutes ago, Onewheeler said:

Stern gland? Is it water cooled?

No, engine bay dry and sealed from main cabin. I guess I described it as bilge pump but it's a pump in the floor in the interior cabin.

[tree monkey]

A pin hole leak from the cauliflower?

Check the insulation, if any bit is damp or bulging that's your leak

[Tracy D'arth]

PRV?   Does the pump cut in now and again on its own?

[NewCanalBoy]

2 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

A pin hole leak from the cauliflower?

Check the insulation, if any bit is damp or bulging that's your leak

That's what I've been thinking. I know there are lots of different makes but how long should one last ! Think it's 10 years old - should last a bit longer ? Boat has not been heavily used but I guess just water sitting in it does the damage, not use.

[NewCanalBoy]

Just now, Tracy D'arth said:

PRV?   Does the pump cut in now and again on its own?

The PRV goes out into the engine bay so not that and not leaking.

 

The pump is a float pump (just a normal bilge pump) it's the first time I've witnessed it go off. Haven't been on the boat for a month so could have been going off. Did think I was using a bit more water than normal.

 

I'm going to try and dry everything out and then check out around the calorifior (sp?!) again.

[tree monkey]

I don't know how long tbh, my old one lasted more than 10yrs but as it was the one on the boat when I bought it I can't be precise.

It was fairly easy to replace in retrospect, it just seemed to involve many more trips to screwfix for random bits than I anticipated 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, NewCanalBoy said:

The PRV goes out into the engine bay so not that and not leaking.

 

The pump is a float pump (just a normal bilge pump) it's the first time I've witnessed it go off. Haven't been on the boat for a month so could have been going off. Did think I was using a bit more water than normal.

 

I'm going to try and dry everything out and then check out around the calorifior (sp?!) again.

No, your cold water pump is what I was referring to.  If it is you have a leak after the pump, if not its before or the cold tank itself.

[ditchcrawler]

5 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

No, your cold water pump is what I was referring to.  If it is you have a leak after the pump, if not its before or the cold tank itself.

Or the pump itself leaking, more likely that than a pipe leak. Mine now sits in a plastic tray with a water alarm in there so I know when it starts leaking

[NewCanalBoy]

9 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

No, your cold water pump is what I was referring to.  If it is you have a leak after the pump, if not its before or the cold tank itself.

Oh I see, yes the main cold water pump cuts in and out as before - no difference from what I remember.

[NewCanalBoy]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Or the pump itself leaking, more likely that than a pipe leak. Mine now sits in a plastic tray with a water alarm in there so I know when it starts leaking

Got under the well deck and scrambled about, really no evidence of any leaks. Feel sure it's not that.

 

I guess if it is a pin hole leak in the Cali thing - it could have been happening for weeks without me knowing.

[ditchcrawler]

20 minutes ago, NewCanalBoy said:

Got under the well deck and scrambled about, really no evidence of any leaks. Feel sure it's not that.

 

I guess if it is a pin hole leak in the Cali thing - it could have been happening for weeks without me knowing.

Check your water pump for leaks, they fail much more often than calorifiers

[Murflynn]

most 12v electrical problems are poor connections and most fresh water problems are leaking joints.

 

how long did the bilge pump operate?  has it repeated?  perhaps the water was gradually collecting and eventually the pump float switch cut in.    it may have been collecting for months.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

31 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

most 12v electrical problems are poor connections and most fresh water problems are leaking joints.

 

how long did the bilge pump operate?  has it repeated?  perhaps the water was gradually collecting and eventually the pump float switch cut in.    it may have been collecting for months.

 

 

 

Add in the monsoon conditions we have had over the last few weeks, a leak around a window, engine hatch etc and there could be quite a bit of 'watter' in the bilge.

 

Its pretty easy to tell 'central heating' or 'engine' water (antifreeze) or 'sea' water from 'fresh' but how do you tell 'fresh' (potable) water from canal water, or, rain water ?

[NewCanalBoy]

4 hours ago, Murflynn said:

How long did the bilge pump operate?  has it repeated?  perhaps the water was gradually collecting and eventually the pump float switch cut in.    it may have been collecting for months.

 

 

Well it was pumping out for a few seconds but as I had the engine running I hadn't heard it, happen to see it. And yes the float switch triggered it, I then rocked the boat trying to get as much water out as possible.

 

Now down to sponges to get the last out. Want to try and leave it dry and then see if anymore comes in during some more rain.

 

I have a feeling this might be tricky to track down !!

[JamesFrance]

If the fresh water pump is not running more often without a tap open it cannot be a water system leak, so it is either from rain or a hull leak.   Hopefully it will not continue appearing when it's not raining.

[Higgs]

 

It could be from the input side of the pump. The fresh water does indicate a domestic water leak. If the pump isn't coming on in any unexpected way, the leak is before the pump, on the input leg of the fresh water supply; a problem I'm dealing with at the moment. 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Higgs

[JamesFrance]

The OP said he had checked there and all dry around the pump and water tank area.

 

[Tracy D'arth]

I asked this in post #5 but you got the wrong end of the stick.

If you have a plumbing system leak anywhere the fresh drinking water pump will come on occasionally to re-pressurise the system.

 

If its a fresh leak before the pump it won't.  Its not uncommon for the tapping in the water tank to corrode away.

[Higgs]

7 minutes ago, JamesFrance said:

The OP said he had checked there and all dry around the pump and water tank area.

 

 

The OP could have a leak on the input which doesn't show up in those places. My input, for instance, is under the floor, and a list could channel the water away from those places and unseen, until it gathers at the stern and makes the floor damp-ish. 

 

 

[NewCanalBoy]

Returned to my mooring yesterday and mopped most of the remaining water out. The floor looks good - or what you can see of it, no long lasting signs of rust.

 

I then stuck my phone down inside and took some short videos. Away from the inspection hatch is quite a bit of rust and there was still some water pooling which I tried to move over shifting weight around the boat. So water must have been in there at different times.

 

Now -

1) I hate rust.

2) I REALLY hate rust.

3) I REALLY hate rust when I know it's there and I can't get at it.

 

So I think I'm only going to be happy when the floor is derusted, treated and painted.

 

I'm sure people have done this many times but how to get the floor up ? It's laid with large pieces of ply with a laminated floor look a like stick down panels.

 

I can't see where the main boards end so thinking all I can do is cut the board across where I know there is a cross member (so it can be laid back down easily on top again.). 

I'll have a straight cut across the floor but maybe a thin line a brown silicon stuff might not look too bad ?

Anyhow, how to cut through the floor, no mains electricity on my mooring, no generator. Buy a battery circular saw ?

The only problem I see is that it won't cut into the corners up to the wall so won't quite finish the job. Chisel to finish it off ?

Bloody boats.

 

Or do people just ignore what's going rusty under the floor boards ?!

[Tony Brooks]

The last sentence - for some inexplicable reason (apart from cost) canal boat builders seem to pt the floor down before much else and then put all the fixed furniture and bulkheads on top so is a beast to get the floor up. All you can do, as you say, is to cut it out in a  way that lets you put it back down again. If some of the laminate panels will lift off without damage you can always glue and screw some battens around the cut out to support the now removable piece  but without lifting some laminate all the screws will show.

 

Think about it, what is the base plate spec? If its 4 or 6mm and its a 30 year old boat then you might have real concerns but if its a 10 mm or more base plate on a newer boat you are likely to have sold the boat before the internal rust becomes an issue. I bet most of the base plate is rusty so getting access and lifting ballast will be a hell of a job..

[Onewheeler]

No one seems to have asked yet if the front deck drains into the bilge. Not unknown and it might explain the presence of a bilge pump. It might be regarded as slightly unusual to have one in the main cabin bilge.

[Tracy D'arth]

3 minutes ago, Onewheeler said:

No one seems to have asked yet if the front deck drains into the bilge. Not unknown and it might explain the presence of a bilge pump. It might be regarded as slightly unusual to have one in the main cabin bilge.

Does it or does it not? Who's hull is it?

 

Do you really want to practically strip the boat just to get at a bit of rust? There will be lots more where you can never see it. Taking all the floor and ballast out will involve a fantastic amount of work.

As Tony said, a 10mm base plate will likely last us all out. Worry more about the outside.