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Calorifier


deckhand

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We bought a boat and are "doing her up". We emptied the water tank, stripped out the sinks and the bath and shower (kitchen and bathroom) and now suddenly a mooring has come up that is near our home.

We are in a quandary as to whether we need to fill up the water to move her. We will need to blank off all the pipes if we need to fill.  I suppose what we are worried about is if the engine heats the water and theres no water there, are we going to cause damage?

Im sorry if it seems a stupid question, and apologise if the question is a simple one but if someone could put our minds at rest and advise what we need to do, we would appreciate it.

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1 hour ago, deckhand said:

We bought a boat and are "doing her up". We emptied the water tank, stripped out the sinks and the bath and shower (kitchen and bathroom) and now suddenly a mooring has come up that is near our home.

We are in a quandary as to whether we need to fill up the water to move her. We will need to blank off all the pipes if we need to fill.  I suppose what we are worried about is if the engine heats the water and theres no water there, are we going to cause damage?

Im sorry if it seems a stupid question, and apologise if the question is a simple one but if someone could put our minds at rest and advise what we need to do, we would appreciate it.

I hope Im understanding your question correctly but circulating hot water through the engine supplied coil will not damage anything as such. But you may find your engine will initially run hotter than norm as there is one place less to lose/transfer heat.

 

Keep an eye on the temp gauge.

 

All that said @Tony Brooks is your man for this one I would suggest.

Edited by The Happy Nomad
Edit to satisfy the willy wavers
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Unless you have drained the calorifier it will still be full of water, they fill from the bottom and empty from the top.   If so as it warms up you may get some spillage due to expansion.

 

No damage will result running the engine, check the oil and water first !

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30 minutes ago, deckhand said:

We bought a boat and are "doing her up". We emptied the water tank, stripped out the sinks and the bath and shower (kitchen and bathroom) and now suddenly a mooring has come up that is near our home.

We are in a quandary as to whether we need to fill up the water to move her. We will need to blank off all the pipes if we need to fill.  I suppose what we are worried about is if the engine heats the water and theres no water there, are we going to cause damage?

Im sorry if it seems a stupid question, and apologise if the question is a simple one but if someone could put our minds at rest and advise what we need to do, we would appreciate it.

Are the engine to calorifier pipes still connected to the calorifier ?

If you have disconnected them then you will be 'dumping' the engine coolant that would have been circulating around the cauliflower.

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44 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

.............you may find your engine will run hotter than norm as there is one place less to lose/transfer heat.

I doubt that is the case . The calorifier should not be part of the engine cooling system design.

I have two engines, one with a calorifier , otherwise identical . Both run at the same temperature .

Maybe the engine  with the calorifier takes a little  longer to warm up . I have never checked.   

 

Edited by MartynG
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55 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

I hope Im understanding your question correctly but circulating hot water through the engine supplied coil will not damage anything as such. But you may find your engine will run hotter than norm as there is one place less to lose/transfer heat.

 

Keep an eye on the temp gauge.

 

All that said @Tony Brooks is your man for this one I would suggest.

So once the water tank is warmed up does that mean that the engine will run hotter.

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7 minutes ago, Tonka said:

So once the water tank is warmed up does that mean that the engine will run hotter.

 

The question was about an empty calorifier, not one that is full of water.

 

I would suspect running engine coolant through an empty calorifier will at the very least result in a slightly quicker warm up time.

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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My engine cooling water to the calorifier coil has valves in, so I can close one of those valves so I do not heat an empty calorifier if it is drained dow . See if yours has valves. If you run the engine with an empty calorifier the engine may heat up more quickly but will not get any hotter.

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2 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Yes but isnt it the same effect once the water in the tank has warmed up. It won't be cooling the engine.

The tank in question hasnt got any water in it, what are you banging on about?

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To the running without water in the calorifier assuming the OP physically drained it. I checked this with the plumbing lecturers at Reading College and they said the water might help support and damp any vibrations in the coils so there might be an increased risk of failure. However they know indirect cylinders rather than the thicker calorifiers and I have been winter boating many times without water in the calorifier. On the hire fleet we did  find one particular design of horizontal calorifier had a tendency to have failed at a single point when we recommissioned in the spring but I suspect it was a poor design. I would not worry about running without water in the calorifier.

 

Engine temperature - the temperature of the engine with a properly designed cooling system is controlled by the thermostat. If the engine runs hotter with a dry calorifier then the system (skin tank) is not properly  designed for that engine.

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8 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

The tank in question hasnt got any water in it, what are you banging on about?

You started it by suggesting a potential overheating issue by running with an empty calorifier which is completely wrong.

 

Are you suggesting an engine with a calorifier  should not be run if you run out of  domestic water ?   

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, MartynG said:

You started it by suggesting a potential overheating issue by running with an empty calorifier which is completely wrong.

 

Are you suggesting an engine with a calorifier  should not be run if you run out of  domestic water ?   

I merely suggested its worth keeping an eye on the temp, no harm in doing that in my view. And I didn't actually say over heat either. I said 'run hotter then normal. That is not the same thing.

 

As Tony has just pointed out the lack of water should not be an issue in an efficiently and properly designed system, BUT the OP's might not be for all we know. So I stand by my suggestion that keeping a particular eye on the temp. is a good idea, certainly initially.

 

 

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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I should perhaps clarify that my initial comments were made in good faith and based on actual experience of moving a boat that was empty of domestic water, the owner who I was helping move commented his engine was running hotter than usual.

 

As we bimbled along we talked through possible reasons for this and he mentioned he had run the water dry the day previous and was planning to fill at the next opportunity. Although the calorifier was probably not itself completely drained we put it down to this. Sure enough when we refilled and pulled some water through. the engine ran a little cooler.

 

Given Tony's post there is now the obvious explanation that the cooling system/skin tank was inadequate for the boat in question. He cant do anything about now as the boat was sold long ago.

 

So yes it shouldn't happen but it can happen, hence my suggestion. Its pretty obvious from some posts on here that an inadequately specd cooling system/skin tank is not exactly an unkown issue.

 

 

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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18 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Are the engine to calorifier pipes still connected to the calorifier ?

If you have disconnected them then you will be 'dumping' the engine coolant that would have been circulating around the cauliflower.

yes still connected, have not disconnected them

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10 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

If the cauliflower is not particularly well insulated, then it is possible that, when full, it may stop the thermostat reaching full temperature. 

I can’t see that happening. The cauliflower coil isn’t that big; it’d just be acting like a heater coil in a car on a cold day. 

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4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Then you'll be fine.

We have not specifically emptied the calorifier.  We drained the water tank down to the point of nothing coming out of the taps on last winterise. will this have emptied the calorifier? or is that a specific separate job?  It ended up with us having to turn the pump off in the end as there wasnt enough water for the prv in the end,  Upon 'gently knocking' the side of the tank, it sounds empty but that is only based on listening. Not too sure on what a full tank sounds like so maybe a bit unreliable.

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