I’m not going to put my horses through it anymore

[nicknorman]

8 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Short form from my memory ... bearing in mind I wasn't present for the "incident".

 

Telemachus was approaching lock 75 on the nearside. 

 

The nearside tailgate on 75 suffers badly from subsidence on the lock, so if it's fully opened it usually takes three strong blokes to close it again.  It's much easier for lockies and much faster for boats if this is avoided.

 

As usual the volly helping the boat up the flight yelled "STOP", fully intending to explain why they should use the offside  afterwards, as they do to every boat coming up.

 

Instead of the usual "Sure, why?" they got a whole tirade about "You're only vollies, it's my boat, my lock, my rules.  You don't have the right to tell me to stop."

 

Having read your various rants online at the time, knowing the vollies well and being a regular on Wigan, I have formed my own opinion on the topic.

 

I think that account is true in terms of who said what, not verbatim, but the general theme. What is an exaggeration is the problem with the lock gate. Yes it sticks a bit when fully open, so what, 2 people can easily close it. It might take an extra 10 seconds to get it to start to close so the point about “much faster” is bullshit. What slows things down is trying to force boats to go in 1 at a time, which is what happened. It is not up to the volockies to micromanage every lock and demand normal practice is changed to suit their overblown sense of self importance.

Volockies should not go around shouting commands at boaters who are conducting themselves normally, and at a “critical time” ie a couple of yards from entering the lock as a pair of boats. If they do, they will get abuse from me every time.

 

So in context of this thread, they shouted inappropriate orders that they were not entitled or empowered to do, and then felt aggrieved when they got a mouthful back. I have no doubt they think my response was unreasonable but it was a consequence of their actions. As I said, 2 sides to every story and it takes 2 to create an argument.

 

Oh and you missed out the bit about one of the volockies standing between the balance beam and the edge. That really is incredibly stupid. Anyway fortunately that was the only lock we had difficulty with (volockie-induced difficulty) the rest of the flight went like clockwork due to there being no volockies present.

Edited August 30, 2020 by nicknorman

[Athy]

This news item makes me despair about the behaviour of some human beings, if that's what they are.

It has personal interest, as 18 years ago I took my History C.E. class for a trip on 'Iona'. We were well treated and the pupils loved it - as did the staff!

I do appreciate that stories have two sides and that we are reading only one.

[Nightwatch]

The Godalming horse boat. Iona.

 

I know Jenny reasonably well via my brother who had ‘done her hair’ for over thirty years. I eventually met her last year, went to her home for a cuppa, then to the stables where she keeps her horses. Then to Godalming where the boat and equipment is kept. Then onto lunch. What a lovely lady she is. In no way are those horses unkept, abused, overworked nor mistreated. My brother is a horsy person and if there were any suggestion that those horses were not in A1 condition he would have ‘had a word’. There was no need to. I don’t remember the breed of horse but I recall they are french and built for the job. And costly.

 

I am sad that she seems to have given up, and the alleged reasons are Such a shame and uncalled for.

[Nightwatch]

3 hours ago, Athy said:

This news item makes me despair about the behaviour of some human beings, if that's what they are.

It has personal interest, as 18 years ago I took my History C.E. class for a trip on 'Iona'. We were well treated and the pupils loved it - as did the staff!

I do appreciate that stories have two sides and that we are reading only one.

I hope that I find out the truth. My brother is about to call Jenny. (He retired last year so only meets Jenny socially now, rather than hair dos as well) 

[Nightwatch]

19 hours ago, nicknorman said:

It is a sad reflection of British people’s behaviour, which I perceive as generally getting worse and more selfish in the past couple of years. But equally, we are only hearing one side of the story. There was a horse boating woman on film somewhere being quite obnoxious to moored boaters and passers-by, and another or same who left their horse boat on the waterpoint at Wheelock for weeks. There was a business email visible on the boat and when we contacted her to complain, she was rude and entitled. There can be a danger that people doing that sort of thing consider themselves to be a special case, more important than everyone else. I’m not saying this is necessarily the case here, but we only have one side of the story.

I think I’m aware of the horse boating woman that you refer to. No names, but I mention this lady to Jenny. I didn’t even need to mention the name of the person. Jenny finished my sentence. The ‘lady’ in question is very rude, arrogant and a right stroppy miss. Does nowt for the trade I guess.

[haggis]

55 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

I think I’m aware of the horse boating woman that you refer to. No names, but I mention this lady to Jenny. I didn’t even need to mention the name of the person. Jenny finished my sentence. The ‘lady’ in question is very rude, arrogant and a right stroppy miss. Does nowt for the trade I guess.

I think I have encountered such a horse boat lady! On our way to an IWA Festival several years ago there was a long line of stationary boats before, I think a tunnel. This lady arrived with her horse drawn boat and demanded that she should go past us all and that we should remove clutter from our roofs to allow the rope easy passage.  I don't think anyone would have minded in the slightest acceding to her requests had she put them in a much less demanding manner.  The impression she gave was that she, as a horse drawn boat lady was MUCH more important than anyone else and we should be tugging our forelocks ? . Her attitude did nothing to endear me to horse drawn boating  although I have had a love and  respect for heavy horses since I was a child. 

 

Haggis

[The Bearwood Boster]

1 hour ago, Nightwatch said:

I think I’m aware of the horse boating woman that you refer to. No names, but I mention this lady to Jenny. I didn’t even need to mention the name of the person. Jenny finished my sentence. The ‘lady’ in question is very rude, arrogant and a right stroppy miss. Does nowt for the trade I guess.

That's got to be the lady I mentioned earlier !

[Machpoint005]

There are obvious practical difficulties (obvious to me, at any rate) in using a horse to tow a boat. The waterways have moved on in 200+ years, and like it or not, there are huge numbers of moored (motor) boats which restrict the use of a tow line. I think I am right in saying that the canals are busier today (in summer) than they ever were in their commercial heyday.

 

I make no comment about the posts regarding alleged cruelty to horses or dogs, other than to say these seem to be yet more instances of folk failing to MTOFB. 

 

 

 

[Flyboy]

20 hours ago, nicknorman said:

It is a sad reflection of British people’s behaviour, which I perceive as generally getting worse and more selfish in the past couple of years. But equally, we are only hearing one side of the story. There was a horse boating woman on film somewhere being quite obnoxious to moored boaters and passers-by, and another or same who left their horse boat on the waterpoint at Wheelock for weeks. There was a business email visible on the boat and when we contacted her to complain, she was rude and entitled. There can be a danger that people doing that sort of thing consider themselves to be a special case, more important than everyone else. I’m not saying this is necessarily the case here, but we only have one side of the story.

I've met Jenny Roberts on several occasions and she was most pleasant and happy to chat about horse boating. She certainly wasn't in the obnoxious category.

[Jerra]

9 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

There are obvious practical difficulties (obvious to me, at any rate) in using a horse to tow a boat. The waterways have moved on in 200+ years, and like it or not, there are huge numbers of moored (motor) boats which restrict the use of a tow line.

Sadly I tend to agree, the situation is made more difficult by the desire of many to see TV anywhere and so have high "masts" for the aerial.

[Machpoint005]

Yes, that, and piles of logs/coal, "top" boxes, plants, bicycles, wind turbines ...

 

This is not a moan, but a real-world observation!

[Nightwatch]

Jenny, Ithink, always had crew onboard to assist the tow rope? hurdle over obstacles.

[nicknorman]

21 hours ago, Jerra said:

Sadly I tend to agree, the situation is made more difficult by the desire of many to see TV anywhere and so have high "masts" for the aerial.

... which is all very noughties! Since we got a smart tv and unlimited iPhone data, we mostly watch tv via the Internet.

[Derek R.]

There's a 'Telemachus' on another forum who writes and moans just like yourself. What a coincidence.

[nicknorman]

2 minutes ago, Derek R. said:

There's a 'Telemachus' on another forum who writes and moans just like yourself. What a coincidence.

Not a coincidence. Is this a moan about me? What exactly are you moaning about? Anything in particular, or just my general existence?

[Derek R.]

Thought as much.

[nicknorman]

3 minutes ago, Derek R. said:

Thought as much.

Ah so just a general moan then. I hope you feel better now, nothing like a good moan to improve one’s morning.

[Derek R.]

You should know.

[blackrose]

On 30/08/2020 at 07:56, nicknorman said:

 

Volockies should not go around shouting commands at boaters who are conducting themselves normally, and at a “critical time” ie a couple of yards from entering the lock as a pair of boats. If they do, they will get abuse from me every time.

 

 

Abuse? Why can't you just put your case to them reasonably as you have done here in this thread? There's really no need to abuse people, even those who have over-stepped the mark.  

[blackrose]

On 29/08/2020 at 16:43, nicknorman said:

There can be a danger that people doing that sort of thing consider themselves to be a special case, more important than everyone else. I’m not saying this is necessarily the case here, but we only have one side of the story.

 

 

I do agree with you on this point. I once had a bunch of boaters shouting at me that a big space was reserved for historic Dunkirk little ships as I was coming in to moor at Teddington lock moorings. They are public moorings which are first come, first served but they had "reserved" a big space for their mates. I obliged and moved much further down to a less convenient spot in the trees, but they really had no right to tell me not to moor there. If they wanted to reserve moorings Teddington has plenty you can pay for below the lock. It's not like they were the chaps who had gone to Dunkirk and rescued soldiers in the war. They'd just got hold of some historic boats and replicas, that's all. I sometimes find people on old working narrowboats have a similar sense of entitlement.

[Bewildered]

44 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I do agree with you on this point. I once had a bunch of boaters shouting at me that a big space was reserved for historic Dunkirk little ships as I was coming in to moor at Teddington lock moorings. They are public moorings which are first come, first served but they had "reserved" a big space for their mates. I obliged and moved much further down to a less convenient spot in the trees, but they really had no right to tell me not to moor there. If they wanted to reserve moorings Teddington has plenty you can pay for below the lock. It's not like they were the chaps who had gone to Dunkirk and rescued soldiers in the war. They'd just got hold of some historic boats and replicas, that's all. I sometimes find people on old working narrowboats have a similar sense of entitlement.

Before moving on I think I would have asked from whence did they get the authority to reserve a public mooring. I probably would have moved on anyway but it’s always fun to confuse the self entitled by asking for their justification.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Bewildered

[nicknorman]

3 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Abuse? Why can't you just put your case to them reasonably as you have done here in this thread? There's really no need to abuse people, even those who have over-stepped the mark.  

When one is entering a wide and fairly deep lock from below with another boat alongside driven by a chap who only bought the boat a few days previously and hadn’t really boated prior to that, and then someone shouts inappropriate commands from the lock side above turning the well oiled plan into mayhem, it is not the best time for polite conversation to explain why I am going to ignore the shouted commands.

 

But let me be clear, when I said “abuse”, no swear words or personal insults were involved, I was just not polite. It was shouted because that was the only means to communicate over the distance and engine noise. I said (shouted) something along the lines of “you are not in charge, so don’t shout inappropriate commands. Go away and “help” someone else who actually wants your help”. No doubt I could have phrased it better had the situation not arisen in an instant and totally unexpectedly when I was busy. And annoyed, because the other boater heeded the order and hit reverse big time, which totally messed up our lock entry.
 

Also, having had a couple of bad experiences with volockies who had taken charge and made me do things not in the way I wanted (in one case, by him physically preventing me from opening a paddle) earlier in the year, which I had gone along with at the time to my subsequent annoyance, I had vowed to have zero tolerance for any inappropriate interference from volockies in the future. So my reaction was to some extent pre-programmed in principle if not in detail.

[mark99]

The trouble with vollies. We only remember the bad ones. They do exist. They need placing down the pecking order every now and then.

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, mark99 said:

The trouble with vollies. We only remember the bad ones. They do exist. They need placing down the pecking order every now and then.

Never had any issues with the Lapworth, Wilmcote, Fradley, Curdworth ones to name the ones that spring to mind. But therein lies the problem, there is no consistency and when I see the blue shirts and lifejackets, these days my tension rises.

[Jerra]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

Never had any issues with the Lapworth, Wilmcote, Fradley, Curdworth ones to name the ones that spring to mind. But therein lies the problem, there is no consistency and when I see the blue shirts and lifejackets, these days my tension rises.

There is a strong chance I would make you tense then.  I wear a lot of blue and being an old fart who realises my chances of survival are greater if I fall in a lock when wearing a life jacket, I wear one.