School Child ( Secondary ) Education

[David HK]

Thanks for both your comments and " True Dat."  

[Alan de Enfield]

Schools are legally obliged to find spaces for children of travellers, BUT, the criteria is that the parent / carer MUST move about as a requirement of his / her job ( Fairground worker, Bargee, Gypsy, tarmacing roads etc etc)

 

Extract from Government information pack to schools :

 

This advice gives information for parents and carers of Gypsy, Roma and Traveller children and those who work with them in schools and local authorities.

 

It is important for schools and local authorities to understand the culture of children and young people from Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities as this reduces the risk of underachievement or exclusion of the pupil.

The best opportunities are found when parents/carers, schools and local authorities understand each other and plan and work together in the interest of the child.

 

The advice explains what the law says and describes some good ideas about school attendance for Gypsy, Roma and Traveller pupils.

 

For the purposes of this advice only, the term ‘Gypsy, Roma and Traveller families’ means: • a)

i. Gypsies inc. Romanies, Romanichals, Welsh Gypsies/Kaale, Scottish Gypsies/Travellers;

ii. Irish Travellers, Minceir;

iii. Roma from Eastern and Central Europe;

iv. Showmen (Fairground people);

v. Circus people;

vi. Boat Travellers/Bargees; vii. New Travellers or New Age Travellers;

 

and • b)

 

the parent/carer is engaged in a trade or business of such a nature that requires them to travel from place to place. This advice on school attendance only applies to families who meet the criteria at both a) and b) above. In this advice the term ‘travelling’ means travelling as part of the parents’/carers’ trade or business. It does not mean travelling as part of a holiday or extended holiday

 

As you travel from area to area, each school in whose catchment area your find your self must provide a 'space' for your child.

 

If you send me a PM (message) with your email address, I'll gladly forward the document to you. It is not allowed on this forum to post Pdfs otherwise I'd post it up for you to read here.

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[David HK]

We will meet the terms of criteria b and I thank you for the info. We are building a hotel boat . 

 

Oh and language centre .

Edited August 29, 2020 by David HK

[PD1964]

16 minutes ago, David HK said:

We will meet the terms of criteria b and I thank you for the info. We are building a hotel boat . 

 

Oh and language centre .

What area are you looking to cruise? As there are a lot of people having the idea of living on a boat and in 2 years things could of changed quite a bit, especially on the Southern parts.

  Looking at hotel boats you could be quite busy, moving, cooking meals, looking after guests, obviously this will be from April-Sept/Oct having this type of business based in your home may not leave enough time for home schooling.

Edited August 29, 2020 by PD1964

[Arthur Marshall]

The NBTA are worth contacting. They do get a lot of criticism on here (mostly due to their reputed lack of desire to actually travel), but a lot of their members are boat dwellers with kids and they should have some useful pointers.

As I understand it, a child has the right to schooling and a place in a school. Your problem may come at the other end, when you want to withdraw her from school for a while.  Legally you are entitled to be nomadic, but the system doesn't make it easy.

[David HK]

42 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

What area are you looking to cruise? As there are a lot of people having the idea of living on a boat and in 2 years things could of changed quite a bit, especially on the Southern parts.

  Looking at hotel boats you could be quite busy, moving, cooking meals, looking after guests, obviously this will be from April-Sept/Oct having this type of business based in your home may not leave enough time for home schooling.

Your model is the old way.and we have planned this quite carefully.

[David HK]

33 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The NBTA are worth contacting. They do get a lot of criticism on here (mostly due to their reputed lack of desire to actually travel), but a lot of their members are boat dwellers with kids and they should have some useful pointers.

As I understand it, a child has the right to schooling and a place in a school. Your problem may come at the other end, when you want to withdraw her from school for a while.  Legally you are entitled to be nomadic, but the system doesn't make it easy.

Thanks for this and yes I have seen the way that they are underfunded or not funded at all because I do believe that they had to shut down their committee in 19 because of no funds.

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, David HK said:

Thanks for this and yes I have seen the way that they are underfunded or not funded at all because I do believe that they had to shut down their committee in 19 because of no funds.

 

I don't know if you are aware  that both of the Hotel Boats operating London / K&A are both up for sale

 

Launched in 2014 ‘Kailani’ is positioned at the luxury end of the market and is a wide beam narrowboat, 65ft (20m) long and 12ft (3.7m) wide accommodating 4 guests in 2 private en-suite cabins, one double and one twin, with 2 dedicated crew. Hotel Boat Kailani currently operates on a pre-set schedule from March to October cruising on the Grand Union and Kennet & Avon Canals, the River Thames and the Lee & Stort Navigation. It is being offered for sale via First Peninsula Marine with a guide price of £299,000 for the very first time. An early viewing is highly recommended.

 

 

Launched in 2013 the Wessex Rose is a hotel boat positioned at the luxury end of the Inland Waterways market. Bespoke designed for purpose, the vessel is a broadbeam canal hotel boat 69ft (23m) long and 12ft 5in (3.9m) wide accommodating 6 guests in 3 en-suite cabins with 2 crew accommodated in a larger double/ twin en-suite owner’s cabin.

 

 

 

I am sure there are good reasons for them being for sale, but it may be worth considering the facts when you come to do your business plan and look at the current market situation - there again buying one of them may allow you to get 'into the business' sooner and buy a going concern.

 

 

[Sir Nibble]

34 minutes ago, David HK said:

Your model is the old way.and we have planned this quite carefully.

This looks like a good idea. Do I surmise correctly? A floating finishing school and a massive field trip? 

[Jerra]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Schools are legally obliged to find spaces for children of travellers, BUT, the criteria is that the parent / carer MUST move about as a requirement of his / her job ( Fairground worker, Bargee, Gypsy, tarmacing roads etc etc)

This is of course correct.  However in my experience (we used to get a lot for up to a month round Appleby Fair) travelling children don't arrive and stay in the school for two terms.  I think 5 weeks was the longest we ever had.

[Graham Davis]

My understand is that although the LA are required to find a place for the "travelling" child there is no compulsion for that to be at the most convenient school, especially if that school has a good reputation and is therefore full. You are more likely to end up at a school "with problems". 

[Victor Vectis]

5 hours ago, smiler said:

Maybe the OP is/was a teacher?

Maybe he is fully capable of home schooling his child.

Providing a broad and balanced  curriculum?

 

English/Maths/Science/ICT?

 

Humanities/Drama/D&T/PE/Art?

 

Delivered by specialists in their field?

 

Those who home school their offspring might think they can homeschool, after all, they attended a school, didn't they?

 

I was born in a hospital. I DO NOT think that makes me a doctor.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Victor Vectis
syntax

[Jerra]

3 minutes ago, Victor Vectis said:

Providing a broad and balanced  curriculum?

 

English/Maths/Science/ICT?

 

Humanities/Drama/D&T/PE/Art?

 

Delivered by specialists in their field?

 

Those who home school their offspring might think homeschool, after all, they attended a school, didn't they?

 

I was born in a hospital. I DO NOT think that makes me a doctor.

I am not, repeat not referring to the OP.   I am sure he is fully capable of home schooling.

 

This is the problem with many today who comment on education not just home schooling.   They feel they know all about schools because they attended a school, once.

[Arthur Marshall]

3 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

My understand is that although the LA are required to find a place for the "travelling" child there is no compulsion for that to be at the most convenient school, especially if that school has a good reputation and is therefore full. You are more likely to end up at a school "with problems". 

The LA is also, I think, required to provide sites for travellers -they don't do that either. These days, they are so short of funds that they are hard pushed to even collect the rubbish. And as they no longer control most of the secondary schools, choice is going to be very limited, and take a lot of time and effort to negotiate.

4 hours ago, David HK said:

Thanks for this and yes I have seen the way that they are underfunded or not funded at all because I do believe that they had to shut down their committee in 19 because of no funds.

I think it was more the committee all fell out with each other, rather than a matter of funding. But their advice may still be useful.

[PD1964]

5 hours ago, David HK said:

Your model is the old way.and we have planned this quite carefully.

So are you going to be cruising the whole of the UK and wintering in different locations or cruising a specific area and winter in the same location. Or just a static hotel and language centre.
 Since you haven’t lived in the UK for 20 years things might be a bit more congested from when you remember the canal system all those years ago and the way things are going even more so in 2 years time.

Edited August 29, 2020 by PD1964

[restlessnomad]

1 hour ago, Victor Vectis said:

Providing a broad and balanced  curriculum?

 

English/Maths/Science/ICT?

 

Humanities/Drama/D&T/PE/Art?

 

Delivered by specialists in their field?

 

Those who home school their offspring might think they can homeschool, after all, they attended a school, didn't they?

 

I was born in a hospital. I DO NOT think that makes me a doctor.

I agree, it should be the last resort of parents, socialising with other kids is important part of growing process, and interacting with various teachers who bring they own way of teaching, cannot be offered by home schooling.

I would hate my parents if they did that to me. (unless there was good reason/circumstances).

 

 

[David HK]

8 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I don't know if you are aware  that both of the Hotel Boats operating London / K&A are both up for sale

 

I am sure there are good reasons for them being for sale, but it may be worth considering the facts when you come to do your business plan and look at the current market situation - there again buying one of them may allow you to get 'into the business' sooner and buy a going concern.

 

 

 

 As an experienced businessman until I retired / ran away after the 2008 crash. a business plan, many, many drafts long, has already been drawn up, dis-guarded and drawn up again. I know these two boats very well and Wessex has always been an intriguing model because to the inexperienced .... bing bing bong $ signs !!  However it comes at a heavy price in regard of man hours. dealing with 6 guests with just two crew and with one of them having to be exclusively below deck as a cook, maid and bottle washer. That can certainly lead to fatigue and " f*** the money, I want a life"

 

It's also an inflexible design. 5 Star or nothing. The standard of build is very high of course ( in both boats ) BUT ......................................

 

So my background is the Navy (Engineer) and proud Diesel Submariner. I am certainly used to the minimalist shipboard life style together with 16 years in HK, where we tend to live in small boxes and have multi use designs for living, as the norm. IKEA does MASSIVE business here!

 

I know that Wessex cost around 300K to put together. The original owner stated that in the TV program ( seen on YouTube!!) about the boat. I thought that extremely high at the time but I guess he must have used Harrods to fit out the boat.  I still think that the prices they want are optimistic in the present climate. I have expected with the loss of 2020 as a trading year for some to fall by the wayside but have to confess and be surprised Wessex is up for sale. Maybe the present owners are leveraged or more than likely the layoff has revealed to them the wonders of "having a real life."

 

Kailani only utilises just over half the people nights of Wessex for the same crew in the same areas for the same prices. it's published 2021 bookings are only running at 47% occupancy and want more than Wessex. NOT a good buy !!  Wessex wants you to see their turnover indicating 80% occupancy and it is a popular boat but their NET seems not to include their wages so ................  Even on those figures you have to calculate ( after taking  your own wage out ) a 5 year plan to recover the investment. If that's ok for you then fill your boots but a new build would do it in two.   Kailani is a design full of wasted profit space. A very traditional and boring layout. Going to be a difficult sale to anyone with a decent accountant.

 

We have a flexible plan - 1) It's a cash buy and our home. No financing, no leverage, no licensing.  Guests are calculated as extra income, not essential to survive. Thank the HK property market for allowing us complete financial security for the rest of our lives.  2) We can utilise our daughter as a steward as her school work allows ( paid of course ) OR / AND we priced in  a paid and accommodated extra staff member (for weekdays.)  Less profit yes but a better work life.  3) A contemporary hull design with unique features that " bring the outside ... in,"  without having to build a Wessex like roof platform. This is why we chose our builder who has built non trad before.  4) VERY flexible accommodation with each guest having the CHOICE of a double (King ) OR two singles BUILT IN and .. en-suite bathrooms ala Wessex.  Oh and it converts into your own private lounge. How do we do it? Magic and 16 years in HK designing furniture solutions as a hobby. 5) The double single allows us to carry  (up to ) 6 students for language learning / Art classes or other things we might dream up. inc walking holidays or city adventures with the boat as the base. We will be sluts for money and have a ready made market from Asia with families wanting to send kids to schools and uni. What better way to discover these than on your own private boat. Oh, we have over a 1000 enquirers so far just from HK as my wife has a massive book of social clients.  

 

So you might see from these highlights, we have thought it through. Even down to meal planning!

 

[David HK]

5 hours ago, PD1964 said:

So are you going to be cruising the whole of the UK and wintering in different locations or cruising a specific area and winter in the same location. Or just a static hotel and language centre.
 Since you haven’t lived in the UK for 20 years things might be a bit more congested from when you remember the canal system all those years ago and the way things are going even more so in 2 years time.

We will have a home base as the rules for a boat based business require this.  My son and his wife and two kids still live in UK and we stay up to date.  I do understand doing the K&A in a wide-beam in the school hols is suicide mission. Those sorts of schedules are not in our plan.

5 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The LA is also, I think, required to provide sites for travellers -they don't do that either. These days, they are so short of funds that they are hard pushed to even collect the rubbish. And as they no longer control most of the secondary schools, choice is going to be very limited, and take a lot of time and effort to negotiate.

I think it was more the committee all fell out with each other, rather than a matter of funding. But their advice may still be useful.

If I can track them down then all well and good but they even shut the website down,

[David HK]

6 hours ago, Jerra said:

I am not, repeat not referring to the OP.   I am sure he is fully capable of home schooling.

 

This is the problem with many today who comment on education not just home schooling.   They feel they know all about schools because they attended a school, once.

Even I as the OP, understand what you're saying and do agree to a certain extent ------- HOWEVER .................................................  Even though I am old and grey I do tend to have the mind of a young teacher with ideas and knowledge of modern practices, rather than traditional, stereotyped ones. 

One person, at home teaching all the subjects, is what most people think of home schooling.  They forget the Australians through the School of the Air have been working the modern system ( internet instead of wireless ) since the 50's.  My mum qualified, after the war, as a book keeper and shorthand typist through the postal correspondence courses offered by Pitman. These started in the 1900's. Modern home schooling is designed around a team of teachers producing online lessons and accredited to a school or an examination body like Excel. No longer a weird parent in a basement and a chalkboard.  Yes, child interaction may be a concern but todays kids find interactions in novel ways and looked upon as the AntiChrist by many parents. My own daughter uses Minecraft and Roblox to interact with friends. My own mum in the early 60's would preach that TV would fry my brain but you have found them as just part of a rooms furniture  in 99% of homes today. 

 

What I am saying is everything changes and people change with it. In two years  5G will be considered old hat and Elon Musks satellites will provide seamless mobile services with NO POOR SERVICE, anywhere on the planet.  His cars and solar arrays will provide enhanced ground station nodes and kids will accept it as the norm and not Sci Fi.  COVID has made many see and be exposed ( in a good way ) to online possibilities and this is to the benefit of modern home schooling. Of course the government will finally cotton on around 2090.

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by David HK

[David HK]

9 hours ago, Sir Nibble said:

This looks like a good idea. Do I surmise correctly? A floating finishing school and a massive field trip? 

Are finishing schools still a thing?

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, David HK said:

I know that Wessex cost around 300K to put together. The original owner stated that in the TV program ( seen on YouTube!!) about the boat. I thought that extremely high at the time but I guess he must have used Harrods to fit out the boat.  I still think that the prices they want are optimistic in the present climate. I have expected with the loss of 2020 as a trading year for some to fall by the wayside but have to confess and be surprised Wessex is up for sale. Maybe the present owners are leveraged or more than likely the layoff has revealed to them the wonders of "having a real life."

 

Kailani only utilises just over half the people nights of Wessex for the same crew in the same areas for the same prices. it's published 2021 bookings are only running at 47% occupancy and want more than Wessex. NOT a good buy !!  Wessex wants you to see their turnover indicating 80% occupancy and it is a popular boat but their NET seems not to include their wages so ................  Even on those figures you have to calculate ( after taking  your own wage out ) a 5 year plan to recover the investment. If that's ok for you then fill your boots but a new build would do it in two.   Kailani is a design full of wasted profit space. A very traditional and boring layout. Going to be a difficult sale to anyone with a decent accountant.

 

You are obviously going into this with eyes wide open and the 'right frame of mind',  - both of these boats have been for sale for well over a year - maybe even approaching 2 years, before going onto the open market they were for sale as a 'confidential sale' (non-published adverts) for some considerable time.

 

Many years ago when buying a marina I seem to have got onto some 'marine business' estate agents books and regularly get info about 'boaty type' sales.

 

Wish you good luck, and hope the market is with you when you finally get here and up & running.