Victron gone off

[Jen-in-Wellies]

9 minutes ago, Karl said:

Hi All. I really appreciate all your comments. The clarify the inverter works in the on Position and green on light is illuminated on right hand side of panel and all 240 power to boat and sockets are restored. No other lights on panel are illuminated. This is with shore power connected. works as though we are out on the cut ! If I move the rocket cover down to Charge only everything goes off apart from the normal 12v supply to lighting etc. No lights on inverter and no 240v power to sockets. Just like someone has disconnected the boat from shore power except it does not crossover automaticly like it did before. Marina says all breakers on post etc are fine and the breakers on the boat are working. I have power from the post to the bot but stops after the breakers on the boat going into the Victron. we think this was caused buy the wife putting the kettle on whilst drier was on at the same time. I have had the front panel off the Victron and can see the Megafuse. I have not checked it as don't want to touch it but there is no sign of it being blown or any scorching around it. 

Thanks Karl,

Looks like the Victron is working fine as an inverter, but for some reason, the shore mains is either not getting to the Victron, or isn't being detected and switched over to by the Victron. Can you take a picture of the inside of the Victron and post it? We can then point out which fuses and breakers to check. Do you have a multimeter? Like @WotEver, I'm suspecting there is an internal 240V fuse, or breaker that has blown, or tripped in the overload incident.

Jenny

Edited August 28, 2020 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Karl]

8 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Thanks Karl,

Looks like the Victron is working fine as an inverter, but for some reason, the shore mains is either not getting to the Victron, or isn't being detected and switched over to by the Victron. Can you take a picture of the inside of the Victron and post it? We can then point out which fuses and breakers to check. Do you have a multimeter? Like @WotEver, I'm suspecting there is an internal 240V fuse, or breaker that has blown, or tripped in the overload incident.

Jenny

Hi Jenny, Quite  simply NO! I am at work and had to leave it but have no multimeter or picture of the inside of the panel. I am trying to get someone to come out and have a look but as its the start of a bank holiday weekend its a nightmare.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

5 minutes ago, Karl said:

Hi Jenny, Quite  simply NO! I am at work and had to leave it but have no multimeter or picture of the inside of the panel. I am trying to get someone to come out and have a look but as its the start of a bank holiday weekend its a nightmare.

That is fine. Just asking. We can't guess where you are, what equipment you have, or what your personal situation is, so have to ask. Hopefully you can get someone over to sort it out.

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Jen-in-Wellies

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, Karl said:

I am at work and had to leave it but have no multimeter or picture of the inside of the panel. I am trying to get someone to come out and have a look but as its the start of a bank holiday weekend its a nightmare.

 

If you pick up a cheap multimeter on your way back from work or can borrow one and post the photos later, we still might be able to get you working again today or tomorrow.

 

 

[pearley]

I understand there are some fusible links on the front circuit board, but pretty sure there is no user replaceable mains fuse inside the Multiplus.

 

 

[WotEver]

35 minutes ago, Karl said:

I have had the front panel off the Victron and can see the Megafuse. I have not checked it as don't want to touch it but there is no sign of it being blown or any scorching around it. 

Let's put this one to bed.  It's NOT the megafuse.  If it was you'd have no inverter.  It could be another, much physically smaller fuse inside, which protects the mains input.

31 minutes ago, pearley said:

Then, whilst you have cover off, check for mains voltage on the input terminals on the green block, bottom left.

Yes, this is really the essential first step.

12 minutes ago, pearley said:

I understand there are some fusible links on the front circuit board, but pretty sure there is no user replaceable mains fuse inside the Multiplus.

That's quite likely, unfortunately.  Looks like the earlier model had one though.

 

And apologies to the OP, I hadn't read the 'no multimeter' post when I wrote the above.  As the crumbly one said, this is the perfect opportunity to get one.

[nicknorman]

Back to the transfer relay.

[WotEver]

3 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Back to the transfer relay.

Yup.. it's sounding more and more likely.

[pearley]

Just out of interest, my original Multiplus had a 30 amp transfer switch as we have a built-in 7kva generator, remote control set at 26 amps. 

 

Current one is 50 amp switch.

[Karl]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

Back to the transfer relay.

when I had the front of the panel off last night there was a Megafuse at the front but dont know what size it is. I'm hoping the guy that comes tonight from Victron finds an easy fix.

[Tracy D'arth]

Please let us know, it may help someone else someday.

[Karl]

25 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Please let us know, it may help someone else someday.

will do

 

[Swendy666]

I had this problem a couple of weeks ago, it took up the whole weekend. I ripped everything out but couldn’t find the problem until the only thing left was the isolated switch.

i checked the load in 12.4v load out 1v it looked perfect but bridges over the terminals.... perfect the inverter had enough power to change back to shoreline. 
£52 new isolated switch job done

[Swendy666]

I don’t think I made myself clear on this.

The battery isolated switch has two terminals but are both 12v live check the feed in should be 12v then check the feed out should be 12v to inverter.

you may find that the excess voltage has melted the switch internally 

If the power is the same in and out it’s not that, but I feel it will read less going out which is why the inverter does not have enough power to internally trip back to shore line.

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, Swendy666 said:

I don’t think I made myself clear on this.

The battery isolated switch...

There’s nothing wrong with the 12V side. The inverter works. Besides, it’s a Combi, it shouldn’t be cabled via the isolation switch. 

[Swendy666]

I must admit there was nothing wrong with my 12v side either! 
but there was not enough feed from the 12v side to allow the inverter to auto switch back to shoreline feed.

it appeared the the extra power the missus used had melted one of the terminals in the switch.  
I bypassed the isolation switch an hey presto inverter turn back to shoreline 

New switch purchase job done.

[WotEver]

31 minutes ago, Swendy666 said:

I must admit there was nothing wrong with my 12v side either! 
but there was not enough feed from the 12v side to allow the inverter to auto switch back to shoreline feed.

it appeared the the extra power the missus used had melted one of the terminals in the switch.  
I bypassed the isolation switch an hey presto inverter turn back to shoreline 

New switch purchase job done.

I repeat... If it’s a Combi then it should be wired direct to the battery (via a fuse) and not through the isolation switch. In the OP’s case he has 230V on all his sockets when in inverter mode, so his 12V side is working. 

[Karl]

19 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Please let us know, it may help someone else someday.

Well Colin from Victron turned up just before 9.00pm last night and was there until midnight (fair play to him) He tested the power coming into the boat, all the R.C.D's and and could only put it down to a problem inside the inverter. He left me connected direct to the mains and can charge batteries via engine starting or my solar panels. Only real difference is if i go out on the cut i won't have 240v power to the sockets but what a guy ! Anyway he is going to take Victron back to its workshop and check out the problem but as its ten years old I may just go for a new one. Can't fault Colin from Off Grid Happy. I've used him before and is always very fair with his prices. I will wait and see what he says is wrong and update when it's sorted.

[tagulablue]

Exactly the same thing happened to us... we went down the same routes as everyone as suggested. We ended up replacing but we did learn a few things whilst sorting:-

1.victron would not try to repair if older than 6 years old

2. The first time the problem occurred it was because whilst the bollard had power it was not full power and not enough for victron to kick in

3. We found a company in Tamworth called Sellweb.  Specialists in industrial inverters but also repair the ones we have on the boat.  You can deliver or courier your inverter to them and they will give you a free quote.  If you decide not to continue with the work they will be no charge.  They guarantee the work for 12 months.  

[GUMPY]

if its not fixable  a separate charger and a change over relay would be the cheapest fix

 

[frangar]

9 hours ago, WotEver said:

I repeat... If it’s a Combi then it should be wired direct to the battery (via a fuse) and not through the isolation switch. In the OP’s case he has 230V on all his sockets when in inverter mode, so his 12V side is working. 

What’s your argument against a properly rated isolation switch...eg blue sea not eBay!...I’d much rather have one fitted so in case of a component failure one can isolate the supply sharpish rather than waiting for a 200A plus fuse to blow. 

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, frangar said:

What’s your argument against a properly rated isolation switch...eg blue sea not eBay!...I’d much rather have one fitted so in case of a component failure one can isolate the supply sharpish rather than waiting for a 200A plus fuse to blow. 

The question is that inverter will draw a continuous 300 amps so is going to need a very meaty switch. I see Blue Sea do a 600 Amp one but could not see a price and although they say continuous I rather suspect that is under starting and not for long periods. As Its a Combi-unit a master switch in its supply could all too easiy isolate the batery charger function

[frangar]

16 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

The question is that inverter will draw a continuous 300 amps so is going to need a very meaty switch. I see Blue Sea do a 600 Amp one but could not see a price and although they say continuous I rather suspect that is under starting and not for long periods. As Its a Combi-unit a master switch in its supply could all too easiy isolate the batery charger function

It is indeed continuous...they have different ratings for intermittent loads. I’ve used them for years with no issues. Have a look on the blue sea website. You could indeed isolate the charger but in the same way you could always operate equipment incorrectly. It’s there as a safety item to my mind. 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, frangar said:

It is indeed continuous...they have different ratings for intermittent loads. I’ve used them for years with no issues. Have a look on the blue sea website. You could indeed isolate the charger but in the same way you could always operate equipment incorrectly. It’s there as a safety item to my mind. 

Even the BSS accept that Solar panels, battery chargers, inverters etc can all be 'wired' directly - not via an isolator switch.

 

 

There does not appear to be a safety issue and it is standard practice.

 

 

3.6.2

Do all electrical circuits pass through a battery isolator, or are those requiring a continuous supply otherwise protected? R

 

Identify any d.c. electrical circuits bypassing the battery isolator.

 

Check that any electrical circuits bypassing the battery isolator supply the following equipment:

• automatic bilge pumps;

• security alarms (including marine radios);

• fire pumps;

• electronic navigation equipment with memories;

• any other equipment where the manufacturer’s instructions indicate or specifically require direct connection to a battery, such as diesel‐fired central heating boilers;

• battery charger outputs;

• inverters or combination inverter/chargers;

• solar panels and wind turbines.

 

Check electrical circuits supplying any equipment on the specified list, and which bypass a battery isolator, for the presence of a fuse or circuit‐breaker, where the circuit can be seen

[frangar]

19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Even the BSS accept that Solar panels, battery chargers, inverters etc can all be 'wired' directly - not via an isolator switch.

 

 

There does not appear to be a safety issue and it is standard practice.

 

 

3.6.2

Do all electrical circuits pass through a battery isolator, or are those requiring a continuous supply otherwise protected? R

 

Identify any d.c. electrical circuits bypassing the battery isolator.

 

Check that any electrical circuits bypassing the battery isolator supply the following equipment:

• automatic bilge pumps;

• security alarms (including marine radios);

• fire pumps;

• electronic navigation equipment with memories;

• any other equipment where the manufacturer’s instructions indicate or specifically require direct connection to a battery, such as diesel‐fired central heating boilers;

• battery charger outputs;

• inverters or combination inverter/chargers;

• solar panels and wind turbines.

 

Check electrical circuits supplying any equipment on the specified list, and which bypass a battery isolator, for the presence of a fuse or circuit‐breaker, where the circuit can be seen

For the price of a decent isolator what’s to lose? Standards are a minimum...nothing to say you can’t add to them....given the questionable build quality of some inverters & combis from eBay I know what I’d do! But as always if it’s not my boat or build then others can do as they think best.