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Intermittent loss of drive / tiller vibration.


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Thoughts and advice on the following please,

 

I'm not sure if all of the following is connected or not but the history so far,

The boat is a 2003 r&d 60ft with a beta 38 and prm 150 gearbox and been in our ownership for 18 months.

From the start I noticed that the tiller had to be held slightly off centre to keep the boat straight and there was minor vibration via the tiller arm, nothing that bothered me too much tbh.

 

Over time I also noticed an occasional very slight tinkling noise when under way which appeared to be coming from under my feet, (propeller / shaft / gearbox area). This sounded like a piece of light wire caught in the prop and hitting the underside of the boat. (it wasn't but its my best attempt at describing the sound.

The tiller vibration also got a little worse as time went on but was manageable.

 

Fast forward to today and I had several issues with loss of drive and more noises from below my feet. Moving into neutral and then reselecting drive seemed to cure it. The final one was  partial loss  of drive with heavy tiller vibration and boat not responding to tiller.

 

I went down the weed hatch as soon as we tied up and the prop is clean as a whistle, the gearbox oil level is good and I can select reverse and forward gear and rev the engine with the expected water movement. I Just tried the gears for a second while tied up.

 

Any thoughts ?

 

 

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14 minutes ago, waterdog said:

Thoughts and advice on the following please,

 

I'm not sure if all of the following is connected or not but the history so far,

The boat is a 2003 r&d 60ft with a beta 38 and prm 150 gearbox and been in our ownership for 18 months.

From the start I noticed that the tiller had to be held slightly off centre to keep the boat straight and there was minor vibration via the tiller arm, nothing that bothered me too much tbh.

 

Over time I also noticed an occasional very slight tinkling noise when under way which appeared to be coming from under my feet, (propeller / shaft / gearbox area). This sounded like a piece of light wire caught in the prop and hitting the underside of the boat. (it wasn't but its my best attempt at describing the sound.

The tiller vibration also got a little worse as time went on but was manageable.

 

Fast forward to today and I had several issues with loss of drive and more noises from below my feet. Moving into neutral and then reselecting drive seemed to cure it. The final one was  partial loss  of drive with heavy tiller vibration and boat not responding to tiller.

 

I went down the weed hatch as soon as we tied up and the prop is clean as a whistle, the gearbox oil level is good and I can select reverse and forward gear and rev the engine with the expected water movement. I Just tried the gears for a second while tied up.

 

Any thoughts ?

 

 

drive plate perhaps?

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1 minute ago, Hudds Lad said:

drive plate perhaps?

The drive plate did cross my mind as there doesn't seem to be anything obviously wrong externally, are there any checks that can be made to determine if the drive plate is on its way out or is it just a case of waiting till it breaks?

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Seconded. Could be the springs rattling or rubber bits depending on type? It will only fail if you are on a tidal river!! :o

Lol, thankfully we just came off the Thames last week and now on the K&A.

 

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2 minutes ago, waterdog said:

The drive plate did cross my mind as there doesn't seem to be anything obviously wrong externally, are there any checks that can be made to determine if the drive plate is on its way out or is it just a case of waiting till it breaks?

Lol, thankfully we just came off the Thames last week and now on the K&A.

 

Does it rattle in neutral?

 

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4 minutes ago, waterdog said:

The drive plate did cross my mind as there doesn't seem to be anything obviously wrong externally, are there any checks that can be made to determine if the drive plate is on its way out or is it just a case of waiting till it breaks?

Lol, thankfully we just came off the Thames last week and now on the K&A.

 

If twer me I would change it anyway, they are not a fortune and its an easy job unless its a crap instalation. 

  • Greenie 1
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7 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

Or the coupling between gearbox and propshaft? Any loose bolts?

 

All looks normal, shaft spins freely by hand with nothing obviously untoward.

5 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

Does it rattle in neutral?

 

No, engine sounds really sweet when revved in neutral. It seems more like a gearbox / drive train issue.

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6 minutes ago, waterdog said:

All looks normal, shaft spins freely by hand with nothing obviously untoward.

No, engine sounds really sweet when revved in neutral. It seems more like a gearbox / drive train issue.

But when you put it into forward at tickover, there’s a rattle? And how about in reverse at tickover?

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7 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

But when you put it into forward at tickover, there’s a rattle? And how about in reverse at tickover?

I normally notice the noise when cruising at lower revs and it goes away when increasing the revs.

 

Just tried it while tied up, no noise in forward but heard it in reverse at low revs.

Edited by waterdog
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1 minute ago, waterdog said:

I normally notice the noise when cruising at lower revs and it goes away when increasing the revs.

 

Just tried it while tied up, no noise in forward but heard it in reverse at low revs.

Maybe check for loose bolts in the propshaft linkage, and the engine mounts?

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I had a driveplate fail on my last shareboat. Started with a tinkling noise which got worse and then vibration.

 

Stopped the boat and called RCR who sorted it out.

 

A couple of the nuts had come loose and were being whizzed around the inside of the bell housing!

 

Don't think it would have lasted much longer before totally failing.

DSCF1989.jpg

DSCF1990.jpg

Edited by cuthound
Wrong worm
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Its the partial loss of drive and tiller vibration that puzzles me. I don't suppose the shaft or shafts whatever you have is loose in a coupling and sliding  out of a coupling in reverse is it? If that was the case it might still rotate because of the key(if it has one / two / more) and the prop might foul the rudder hence the heavy vibration, engage forward and it pushes back into the coupling and clear of the rudder, vibration ceases. As for a tendency to steer one way slightly, don't worry, happens a lot.

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Leaf ball round the prop.

 

Try "chucking back" - use a short burst of reverse next time it does it and see if it fixes it.  It's astounding how much a few swirling leaves near the propeller affect forward motion, and can totally prevent it if there are enough of them.

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Update,

 

just done an hours cruise and everything working as normal, no loss of drive or funny noises ?

 

Yesterdays cruise was in the tail end of storm Francis so there was a lot of small branches and leaves in the canal (we passed some contractors tidying up fallen trees etc) so its possible it was some crap on the prop, it was absolutely clear when I went down the hatch though but I fully expected to find an old mattress or similar from the way the boat behaved.

 

The drivetrain bolts etc look ok from what I can tell but it will need someone younger and more flexible than me to get down there and check properly.

I think its a case of monitoring the issue for the moment and see if anything develops, we have got RCR membership if we get stuck.

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, waterdog said:

Yesterdays cruise was in the tail end of storm Francis so there was a lot of small branches and leaves in the canal (we passed some contractors tidying up fallen trees etc) so its possible it was some crap on the prop, it was absolutely clear when I went down the hatch though but I fully expected to find an old mattress or similar from the way the boat behaved.

 

11 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Leaf ball round the prop.

 

Yep, I have been having the same this week.  Because the leaves only get caught by the swirling water round the propeller, by the time you have stopped and opened the weedhatch there is nothing to see.  They don't get wrapped around the shaft or propeller, they only swirl in the water but it doesn't take much to really disturb the water flow so the boat slows down, sometimes to a dead stop.

 

It's very common in Autumn when the leaves start falling, but the recent storms have shaken enough loose to get it now.  As I said above, when it next starts drop into neutral for a few seconds or give a short burst of reverse then carry on.

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I remember lifting a boat out that the owner said was a pig to handle and slow.

It had the remains of a plastic garden chair hanging on the end of the skeg by the rudder cup.

No surprise there.

Edited by Tracy D'arth
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8 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I remember lifting a boat out that the owner said was a pig to handle and slow.

It had the remains of a plastic garden chair hanging on the end of the skeg by the rudder cup.

No surprise there.

I was collecting a lot of weed around the rudder cup and above the rudder a couple of weeks ago on the BCN, that and lily leaves on the prop that chuck off

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I have that sound like wire hitting bottom sometimes, also I often feel the rudder is notwell balanced I need to use a lot of muscle if driving boat hard. I do have a short tiller and drive from side of rear deck, standing clear of tiller arm, I find it difficult to go round z bends in shallow water, sometimes have to reverse, I think it's me, and the 57ft of boat?

Do I book it in for repair?

Edited by LadyG
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