Ruston hornsby

[Dashwood]

Hi all, I am the proud owner of Dashwood a 62' Colecraft fitted with an RH 2VSH. I bought the boat 2 years ago as soon as she came up for sale having admired her for a few years. I'm particularly pleased with the engine that I have now got to know quite well. I have been around boats all my life so I knew exact what I wanted, in a trad' engine and the RH has it.

 

There are a few questions I will ask over the next few weeks regarding the RH, and hope that those of you who are familiar with these engines will have some ideas. I have read the threads listed with interest.

 

 

 

Paul

Edited August 25, 2020 by Dashwood
Mispelling

[PhilR]

13 hours ago, Dashwood said:

Hi all, I am the proud owner of Dashwood a 62' Colecraft fitted with an RH 2VSH. I bought the boat 2 years ago as soon as she came up for sale having admired her for a few years. I'm particularly pleased with the engine that I have now got to know quite well. I have been around boats all my life so I knew exact what I wanted, in a trad' engine and the RH has it.

 

There are a few questions I will ask over the next few weeks regarding the RH, and hope that those of you who are familiar with these engines will have some ideas. I have read the threads listed with interest.

 

 

 

Paul

An excellent engine. Congratulations ?

[Dashwood]

Thanks Phil, yes Im very pleased with it, it generally starts easily and is happy chugging away all day long. However, it was noted when it was originally supplied by Ray Hooley in 1990 that it was a little smokey until warm, and indeed the many thousands of hours use over the last 30 years may or may not have added to that problem. It can be quite unpleasant when the wind is in the wrong direction and given what is now known about the impact pf particulates from diesel fumes on the human lung it does bother me a little.

 

So once started RH warms up fairly quickly given that there is no obvious water pump to circulate cooling water. There is an electronic temperature gauge that shows about 60 degrees when warmed and the calorifier  heats water very effectively. It seems that the outlet from the block goes first to the calorifier then to the skin tank then returns. There is a header tank that I keep topped up with water and blue antifreeze. I assume then that the circulation is via convection only. There is a valve which I can use to shut off or control the flow through the system.

 

I have read on the site that some have fitted a three way Lada thermostat to aid warm up, and I'm not convinced that a quicker warm up would solve the 'smokiness', so I doubt I would bother with the faff,  Smoke does improve a little when the engine is warmed up but I don't really know how much smokiness to expect from a 1950s engine.

 

The other thing I note is that the fuel is supplied by an electric fuel pump that was fitted shortly before I took ownership of the boat and i wonder if this could be over fuelling the engine causing more smoke that necessary.

 

Any thoughts advice gratefully received - Paul

[BEngo]

Start with a boatman's tune up.  Go find a good river.  The Severn is good the Thames is next best.  The Trent would be good too.  Find a nice long pound.  When the engine is warm, wind the engine up to full chat,( obeying the speed limits!)  but not black smoke, and leave it there for at least a couple of hours.  Go up and down the pound as necessary.  This will warm up the valves, burning off carbon from the stems, and the piston rings and get out the sticky muck that builds up in the grooves.  It will also get the nozzle tips properly hot to burn off any carbon on the injectors.  Expect much cr@p from the exhaust when it gets warmed up and keep an eye on the temperatures.  Not all cooling arrangements are good enough for prolonged power runs.

 

Most canal boat engines don't work hard enough for long enough so a longish high power run is a good idea fairly frequently- at least annually and more if you do a lot of pottering.

 

Don't know the engine  but there will be a water pump, somewhere.   Convection will not feed a normal calorifier.

 

The electric  fuel pump just keeps the injector pump(s) fed.  The fuel going into the engine is metered very precisely by the injector pumps and then fed to the injectors.

If a good "thrashing" doesn't help with the smoking  it would be worth removing the injectors and taking them to a specialist to get them cleaned and checked.  Do not attempt to do anything except removal to either injectors or injector  pumps without the specialised kit.  Some engines are smoky.  My Kelvin smokes when cold, the Key-Start Bolinders smoke when working at mid power, Gardners smoke when they feel like it, and so on.

 

N

Edited August 27, 2020 by BEngo

[Dashwood]

BEngo- thanks for that , the Thames is nearest, il give it a go when Im next down there.

 

Another Issue I noticed last week not specific to the engine but alternator charging. When at the mooring I have a Victron charger connected to the mains to top up the batteries. When leaving the mooring the charging light pulses on and off with the voltmeter pulsing between 13 and 15 volts accordingly despite the Victron having been on overnight. This seems weird as the batteries should be fully charged from the Victron?

 

After a few hours cruising the charge light glows slightly but not brightly and will not go off completely the voltmeter will show no more than 13 volts under any conditions. After 10 days out this remains the same despite the batteries being used overnight to power the fridge tv lights etc. I would have imagined that on start up after an evening of entertainment the alternator would be charging at 15 volts until the batteries are topped up, not the case, cant get more than 13 volts under any conditions once away on a cruise. I checked the tension on the belt drive to the alternator seems ok. Checked and cleaned all battery connections and distilled water, checked for any obvious loose connections throughout the system.

 

I'm assuming the alternator is failing and the diodes probably shot. Its a standard Lucas A133 50amp unit probably from a Range Rover so I am considering upgrading to a 70amp unit brand new to see if this solves the problem.

 

There are 4 X 110amp hour newish leisure batteries and a new 110amp hour cranking battery that is isolated when ignition is off.

 

Another annoying issue is one of voltage control. Imagine watching TV and the fridge or water pump kicks in, TV goes off with a pop and then comes back on when the voltage is stabilised. Any ideas how one might stabilise the voltage to preclude such an issue? 

 

I have a 200watt solar panel that I intend to fit this winter to aid charging.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Dashwood
Mispelling

[Tracy D'arth]

Does sound like an injured alternator.

 

Your batteries will die prematurely unless you fix it, you need to charge until the voltage has been over 14.6 for a  while AND the tail charging current is less than an amp. Only then are they fully charged.

 

The voltage problem with the TV is either a poor connection in the wiring  or more likely bad volt drop due to undersized cables.

[BEngo]

Tracy has it right about killing  the batteries, but you could call new ones fully charged at anything less than 4 Amps at 14.5/14.6 volts for ordinary lead Acids.  Gel or AGM batteries have their own max charging voltages.

 

What sort of voltmeter are you using?  You really need to be able to read voltage to two decimal places, so if you have a 2 inch diameter Lucas type instrument ignore it and check with a multimeter on the 20 V DC range.  If you don't have one there are loads on the web.  You will need to spend about £30 or if you came up on the lottery, buy a Fluke.

 

Do you have an ammeter?  If not buy a DC clamp meter/ multimeter combined.  Double check the clamp meter does DC!

Then, please tell us what the charge current is the morning after a night off mains and what the charge current from the Victron is soon after you get back to your mooring after a few days away.

 

What is the battery terminal voltage when nothing has been on for about an hour?  What is the battery voltage with the Victron on?  What is the battery terminal voltage when the telly is on and then the water pump kicks in?  Can you measure the input voltage at the telly  whilst the water pump is on?  The effect of the fridge kicking in will be impossible to see without some fancy kit. 

 

I think you have two problems,:  

 

The alternator is failing fast and I guess at the cause as either the regulator/brushes  or open circuit field diodes.

Flat batteries because of duff alternator.

 

The flat  batteries are causing the telly to go off because the voltage drop when the water pump goes on is upsetting the TV input electronics. I expect it works fine when on shore power

 

N

[Dashwood]

all very useful Im grateful for the advice - thanks you I will report back when I have done those various checks - Paul

[Chris Lowe]

When I saw a thread titled Ruston Hornsby I thought of one of these first not the engines.

 

[Sea Dog]

Was it the same Ruston who teamed up with Bucyrus?

[BEngo]

Yes,  Bucyrus were a fairly  well established American outfit.  RB was a joint venture and if took in the R&H excavator business.

 

N

[Dashwood]

The RH in my boat was originally from a crane according to the details that came with the engine from Ray Hooley who is the expert on these in the UK, I have tried to contact him but with no success.

[BEngo]

I think Ray Hooley is not very active these days.  He is over 90, so entirely understandable.  I believe his archive material is now held by the  Anson Museum, a short walk from the moorings at Higher Poynton, so an enquiry there may help you.

 

N

[Mad Harold]

4 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Was it the same Ruston who teamed up with Bucyrus?

As a young lad,I worked briefly on a site that used Ruston Bucyrus diggers and draglines. They were I think made by Priestman engineering in Hull.

They were known as a RB 10,12 or 22,the number being the cu yards of the bucket.

A Paddy with a shovel was known as a 1 RB!

[Sir Nibble]

The A133 can be directly replaced by an A127 cheaply available all over. The fan and pulley however will not interchange so make sure they come fitted to the replacement.

[Dashwood]

34 minutes ago, BEngo said:

I think Ray Hooley is not very active these days.  He is over 90, so entirely understandable.  I believe his archive material is now held by the  Anson Museum, a short walk from the moorings at Higher Poynton, so an enquiry there may help you.

 

N

Yes I guessed he must be getting on a bit by now. However my dad didn't stop working until 90!!!

1 minute ago, Sir Nibble said:

The A133 can be directly replaced by an A127 cheaply available all over. The fan and pulley however will not interchange so make sure they come fitted to the replacement.

Yes thanks I'm tracking a 70 amp marine one on ebay.

[BWM]

I also have the same symptoms regarding the faint glow, have had the alternator checked, new batteries and wiring checked, along with a new belt. Will be interested in any progress you have. 

[billh]

1 hour ago, Mad Harold said:

As a young lad,I worked briefly on a site that used Ruston Bucyrus diggers and draglines. They were I think made by Priestman engineering in Hull.

They were known as a RB 10,12 or 22,the number being the cu yards of the bucket.

A Paddy with a shovel was known as a 1 RB!

Our 10RB  shovel had a 3/8 cubic yard bucket , i think your 10 cu yard estimate is a bit high! The model number is vaguely related to the weight of the machine. There was no 12RB but more than 10,000 22RBs were built- much beloved  in olden days by demolition contractors  swinging  an iron ball  on a 90ft boom. RBs were built at the factory in Lincoln ,Priestman's built their own cranes and excavators and were quite different in design.

I do like the 1RB reference, not heard that before?

[Mad Harold]

11 hours ago, billh said:

Our 10RB  shovel had a 3/8 cubic yard bucket , i think your 10 cu yard estimate is a bit high! The model number is vaguely related to the weight of the machine. There was no 12RB but more than 10,000 22RBs were built- much beloved  in olden days by demolition contractors  swinging  an iron ball  on a 90ft boom. RBs were built at the factory in Lincoln ,Priestman's built their own cranes and excavators and were quite different in design.

I do like the 1RB reference, not heard that before?

I'm going back here to about 1966!

Memory getting a bit dim.

It's old age and poverty that causes it!

[Dashwood]

On 27/08/2020 at 20:55, Sir Nibble said:

The A133 can be directly replaced by an A127 cheaply available all over. The fan and pulley however will not interchange so make sure they come fitted to the replacement.

Ok, I have managed to get a brand new A127 marine alternator on ebay for £50, so will be fitting that soon and testing the system as suggested. Dashwood has just been relaunched having been surveyed and blacked. Survey AOK a big relief, in fact the surveyor was very complimentary about the overall condition of the boat. I bought her two years ago with no survey but having known quite a lot of the history but still  a gamble I was prepared to take having admired the boat for a few years.

 

Incidentally I was chatting to a guy cleaning his boat on at Saul Junction who recommended BULLET Carnuba wax. I have used Craftmaster in the past to good effect but have bought some Bullet to try it out.

 

update soon - Paul

[Dashwood]

Bloody hell!! Picked Dashwood up after blacking anodes and survey, 2 hour cruise, 5 minutes from home mooring went into astern and crunch, limped on to mooring, lifted bilge boards checked drive shaft bearings all ok, gearbox still engages so I suspect the drive plate has come adrift or started to disintegrate. Just what I needed after spending 1300 quid today. At least it's easy to get to, so next job drop prop shaft, unbolt gearbox and bell housing and see what's happened. Alternator will have to wait. I just hope it's an easily sourced drive plate and NOT the gearbox that's gone bang. BOATS!!!!

Edited September 6, 2020 by Dashwood
Mispelling

[David Mack]

What gearbox have you got?

Edited September 7, 2020 by David Mack

[Dashwood]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

What gearbox have you got?

Its  a Hurth, having read up on the various blogs, the problem sounds like ' a bag of spanners' so Im pretty confident now that its the drive plate, especially as I think I might have hit bottomewhen i went in to astern, strip down on the way.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Dashwood
Mispelling

[Dashwood]

new prm box for sale for £400 tempting

[BEngo]

Better than any Hurth, but check that the torque rating is OK with your R&H.

 

N