Crossing the Mersey estuary from Eastham to Liverpool

[Grassman]

Just an update to say that Stuart Wood is definitely still doing the piloting. In fact it seems he is the only person offering the service. He was with us on Friday from Ellesmere Port Boat Museum to Eastham Lock and down the Mersey to Liverpool. He has recently done a few, including the internet vloggers Foxes Afloat, but would like to do more of them. Not only does he have so much knowledge about the river, but it's like having a tour guide onboard such as he tells you about the places you are passing and their history.

 

Our trip went well and was fairly smooth except we had to wait about 15 minutes in rather choppy waters and with a sidewind, for Brunswick Lock to get their act together. You certainly get the perspective of how massive the river is. Regarding the 'scary stakes' which I know puts some folk off, I've had far worse experiences on the likes of the Tidal Trent and Yorkshire Ouse. This was a breeze in comparison and definitely worth doing.

 

My only disappointment was that there were no big vessels about as a few of them would have really enhanced the experience. 

 

Stuarts contact details are

stuart.wood@danieladamson.co.uk

or chestermarineuk@gmail.com

 

or you can phone/text him on 07770 664951

 

 

 

 

[jetzi]

I'm curious about doing this from Liverpool to the Shroppie - Brunswick Dock lock, across the Mersey to Eastham lock, then up the MSC a short way to Ellesmere Port basin.

 

We would have to pay for the pilot, however much that would cost. And for us life jackets (25ish x2), maybe a radar reflector (30ish), and a cheap VHF radio (65ish). Having a pilot I guess eliminates the need to know anything about safely navigating on estuaries or amongst shipping.

 

Given that you have to do a bit of the MSC from Eastham to Ellesmere Port, I expect you'd have to follow all the MSC stuff? (as laid out in this guide: https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/96900-manchester-ship-canal-a-guide-june-2018) I guess if you are going to spend upwards of £242 (£75 for the Cert of Seaworthiness and £167 for the MSC transit) you better go all the way to Pomona lock. Unless one can pay a reduced cost if only using Eastham lock?

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by jetzi

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, jetzi said:

I'm curious about doing this from Liverpool to the Shroppie - Brunswick Dock lock, across the Mersey to Eastham lock, then up the MSC a short way to Ellesmere Port basin.

 

We would have to pay for the pilot, however much that would cost. And for us life jackets (25ish x2), maybe a radar reflector (30ish), and a cheap VHF radio (65ish). Having a pilot I guess eliminates the need to know anything about safely navigating on estuaries or amongst shipping.

 

Given that you have to do a bit of the MSC from Eastham to Ellesmere Port, I expect you'd have to follow all the MSC stuff? (as laid out in this guide: https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/96900-manchester-ship-canal-a-guide-june-2018) I guess if you are going to spend upwards of £242 (£75 for the Cert of Seaworthiness and £167 for the MSC transit) you better go all the way to Pomona lock. Unless one can pay a reduced cost if only using Eastham lock?

 

 

Life jackets £75 each (there is a huge difference between a life jacket and a buoyancy aid)

Before you can use a radio you need to take the course and pass the exam £???

[jetzi]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Life jackets £75 each (there is a huge difference between a life jacket and a buoyancy aid)

Before you can use a radio you need to take the course and pass the exam £???

Thanks, I just had a look on ebay, don't know what I'm looking for partiularly What meets the standard needed for the Mersey crossing? If you could recommend something that would be great.

 

Didn't realise a course was necessary, the guide I read just said having one on board is required. I should have thought the pilot would have this qualification at least?

[Alan de Enfield]

A lifejacket will turn you face up within a few seconds, ideal if you happen to hit your head on the side of the boat and have concussion or are knocked out. You should have an automatic life jacket and, one which has a crutch strap otherwise as you fall in it just slides over your head. Most adults will require a 150 newton rated LJ. I have a 285 Newton as I cannot swim particularly well and, in the winter, I am wearing a lot of thick clothing which is very heavy when wet.

 

A buoyancy aid is designed simply as an aid to buoyancy if you are water skiing, do-nutting etc. They actually have most of the buoyancy on the back so if you are not sufficiently 'in control' they actually turn you face down and you drown.

 

Do not buy a 2nd hand jacket off ebay, you have no idea how old it is when it was last serviced or even if it holds air or if the gas cartridge is empty or full.

 

Its a bit like buying insurance or an anchor - you hope you'll never need it, but if you do, you need it to work.

 

I'll not recommend a certain make or model, just get one that meets the above criteria (in Red) and it'll be fine.

 

Regarding the radio,I would have hoped that the pilot would not only be licenced to use one, but would provide his own. It YOU intend to use one than you need an operators licence, and, the radio itself also needs a licence.

 

 

Why wear a crotch strap / lifejacket harness?

• Stops the lifejacket riding up over your face or even head, by wearing a crotch strap it enables you to float better and keep your airway clear of the water. 
• Keeps your lifejacket in a safe and correct position 
• No waste of energy holding lifejacket down
• Means the waist strap doesn't have to be quite as tight to hold lifejacket down - particularly relevant to those whose waist is larger than their chest.. 
• If you fall in from any height with no crotch strap, depending on the make and model of lifejacket, the inflated life jacket can completely come over your head with the force of impact. Wearing crotch strap would keep your lifejacket in place and in the correct, safe position.

Even in the height of summer, waters around the UK are quite cold and if you accidentally fall in your first reaction is to gasp with shock. This short-lived reaction means that you re uncontrollably and indiscriminately gulping for air, so the closer your mouth is to the water the re water you’ll gulp.  A crotch strap will enable you to protect yourself from this eventuality (particularly when fitted to an automatic or hydrostatic lifejacket). 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Tim Lewis]

4 hours ago, jetzi said:

I'm curious about doing this from Liverpool to the Shroppie - Brunswick Dock lock, across the Mersey to Eastham lock, then up the MSC a short way to Ellesmere Port basin.

 

We would have to pay for the pilot, however much that would cost. And for us life jackets (25ish x2), maybe a radar reflector (30ish), and a cheap VHF radio (65ish). Having a pilot I guess eliminates the need to know anything about safely navigating on estuaries or amongst shipping.

 

Given that you have to do a bit of the MSC from Eastham to Ellesmere Port, I expect you'd have to follow all the MSC stuff? (as laid out in this guide: https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/96900-manchester-ship-canal-a-guide-june-2018) I guess if you are going to spend upwards of £242 (£75 for the Cert of Seaworthiness and £167 for the MSC transit) you better go all the way to Pomona lock. Unless one can pay a reduced cost if only using Eastham lock?

 

 

Any decent pilot will carry his/her own VHF radio and be qualified to use it

[howardang]

44 minutes ago, jetzi said:

Thanks, I just had a look on ebay, don't know what I'm looking for partiularly What meets the standard needed for the Mersey crossing? If you could recommend something that would be great.

 

Didn't realise a course was necessary, the guide I read just said having one on board is required. I should have thought the pilot would have this qualification at least?

I would fully endorse the advice about buying safety equipment of sites such as Ebay, and indeed for something which you may rely on to save the life o& you and your crew you need to make sure that it supplied by a trusted supplier. 
 

With  regard to VHF radio remember that you are the master of your vessel, even with a pilot on board, and it is your responsibility to be aware of what you need to be aware of to comply with the appropriate rules. 
 

Howard

[jetzi]

Was just looking for a rough idea of the costs and difficulty involved, not trying to endorse any particular safety equipment or supplier. In any event appreciate the correction of ~£75ish each. Good to know that the radio is the responsibility of the pilot.

 

Is the MSC is a flat cost whether you are just going through Eastham locks or if you are going all the way up to Hunts Bank?

[howardang]

5 minutes ago, jetzi said:

Was just looking for a rough idea of the costs and difficulty involved, not trying to endorse any particular safety equipment or supplier. In any event appreciate the correction of ~£75ish each. Good to know that the radio is the responsibility of the pilot.

 

Is the MSC is a flat cost whether you are just going through Eastham locks or if you are going all the way up to Hunts Bank?

You may have misread my last sentence. You are responsible for any safety equipment which you carry  on your boat, and that includes radio certification. A pilot may well carry his own personal radio and certainly he will be qualified but that doesn't relieve you of the requirement for you to be qualified to operate your own radio, and indeed for it to be licenced.

 

Howard

[jetzi]

1 minute ago, howardang said:

You may have misread my last sentence. You are responsible for any safety equipment which you carry  on your boat, and that includes radio certification. A pilot may well carry his own personal radio and certainly he will be qualified but that doesn't relieve you of the requirement for you to be qualified to operate your own radio, and indeed for it to be licenced.

 

So you need to both have a pilot onboard with a radio, AND have your own radio and be qualified to use it in order to make the Mersey crossing?

[howardang]

1 hour ago, jetzi said:

 

So you need to both have a pilot onboard with a radio, AND have your own radio and be qualified to use it in order to make the Mersey crossing?

No, that is not what I said. I was speaking generally about equipment on your boat., including radio. You mentioned in a previous post that you may purchase a cheap VHF. Others have already covered advice about this particular crossing. 

 

Howard

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, jetzi said:

So you need to both have a pilot onboard with a radio,.............................

 

 

Do you know for sure that your pilot will be bringing a radio with him?

 

If he does, I'd suggest that the MSC requirements will be met and you do not need your own radio on board.

[jetzi]

I think I see what you are saying, I don't need my own radio for the crossing but should I buy one anyway for some reason I would need to be qualified and licensed. Fair point, if a bit tangential to the topic.

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, jetzi said:

Fair point, if a bit tangential to the topic.

 

Not really.

If you were going to buy one, you needed training and a licence which needed to be considered before making the crossing.

If your pilot has one, then you don't need one, you don't need training or a licence - saved you money - win/win. The money saved on the radio can go towards better lifejackets rather than the £25 budgeted ones.

[jetzi]

Thanks Alan. I think we're speaking at cross purposes. I just read this topic, thought "that sounds like something I'd like to do one day, I wonder what's involved?"  I'm not planning the passage in this thread, I'm just wondering if it's in the realms of possibility given my budget, skills and risk appetite.

I'm thinking more along the lines of "you'll need to hire a pilot which is about £150, get a MSC seaworthy cert for another £100, and pay £50 for the use of Eastham docks one way. Plus you'll need to book the pilot and locks a month in advance." These are my guesses which are probably optimistic and at £300 for the passage, already seems too rich for my blood. Details about radio legislation and lifejacket usage are therefore probably a moot point for me, but probably useful for other readers!

[Tam & Di]

 

23 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Before you can use a radio you need to take the course and pass the exam £???

 

My understanding of the regulations is that someone on board the boat must have a personal ‘Operator’s Certificate’ ('Short Range Certificate'), having done a training course & test. Others may use the VHF 'under supervision'.

 

Tam

[Grassman]

16 hours ago, jetzi said:

Thanks Alan. I think we're speaking at cross purposes. I just read this topic, thought "that sounds like something I'd like to do one day, I wonder what's involved?"  I'm not planning the passage in this thread, I'm just wondering if it's in the realms of possibility given my budget, skills and risk appetite.

I'm thinking more along the lines of "you'll need to hire a pilot which is about £150, get a MSC seaworthy cert for another £100, and pay £50 for the use of Eastham docks one way. Plus you'll need to book the pilot and locks a month in advance." These are my guesses which are probably optimistic and at £300 for the passage, already seems too rich for my blood. Details about radio legislation and lifejacket usage are therefore probably a moot point for me, but probably useful for other readers!

 

Last month we did the journey from Ellesmere Port Boat Museum to Liverpool. Here's a summary of costs and requirements we had to fulfil.

 

Certificate of Seaworthiness £60

Pilot Stuart Wood £125 and he had the VHF radio, so you wouldn't need one.

MSC from Ellesmere Port to Eastham Lock including locking onto the Mersey £73

Brunswick Lock into Liverpool £20

Salthouse Dock - free of charge for 7 nights, then £20 a night thereafter.

 

Ignore much of the criteria in Peel Ports induction pack because much of it you won't need, navigation lights for example. The seaworthiness certificate is quite basic and is mainly just checking that your boat floats, has a suitable anchor, a couple of fire extinguishers, a working horn, and that you have a life vest/jacket. Our surveyor Mike Carter (he is on the Peel Ports approved list) is based in Northwich so we met him there and avoided paying his travelling costs. The certificate is valid for a year.

 

Booking too far in advance may not be allowed. Usually they say 3 to 5 days in advance. It's tide and weather dependant and also may be slightly changed at short notice depending on shipping traffic. Eastham control or your pilot will advise you of suitable dates if you give them a call.

 

You will have to email Peel Ports with your insurance certificate when you make the booking and pay the fee up front.

 

The pilot Stuart Wood is brilliant. You drive the boat and he is there to advise you as you go along. It's also like having your own tour guide as well. I've put his contact details earlier in this thread. He will also answer any questions you have in advance of making the booking.

 

It's a great trip whichever direction you do it in. It took us about 2 hours and despite being against the tide our old BMC 1.8 engine coped easily with it. It was much easier than some of the previous tidal waters I've done such as the Ribble, the Thames Tideway, the Trent and Yorkshire Ouse.

 

By the way, if you want to do the whole length of the MSC I think the fee is £178 plus £30 to lock up or down to/from the Bridgewater Canal at Pomona Lock, Manchester.