Oarsmen and navigation rules.....

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Having just travelled the River Cam down to Cambridge, I think I can be critical of some of those on that section since I shall not be going again (Visitor Moorings are crap). I was interested just how little knowledge of general navigation rules the rowers have (generalisation, since some of them must know something about them!).

 

Travelling out from Cambridge there is the slightly ridiculous piece of river where it has been decided that rules of navigation should be reversed and instead of passing oncoming boats port to port you have to pass them starboard to starboard. I can accommodate peculiarities such as this, but don't take kindly to oarsmen who seem to have no knowledge of rules of navigation trying to lecture me. As I approached the relevant section, about 25 metres beforehand, with no oncoming boats nor any boat now coming up behind me (but one wooden skiff about 70 metres ahead) I complied with the direction to change sides of the river. The elderly skiff rower ahead then chose to stop for no obvious reason that I could see. As I started to steer to go around him his boat began to drift across the river whilst he was fannying around with whatever he was doing. This was forcing me to go further and further to the 'wrong' side of the river to pass him. He eventually got going again and we continued on our separate ways.

 

When I got to Bates Bite Lock, where he turned around, he than took the opportunity to come up behind me to give the benefit of his 'wisdom'. His first question was,"What do you know about the navigation on here?". I told him I was aware of the rule for changing sides of the river, "Yes", he said, "you changed sides too early that was why I stopped to photograph you". Slight irritation was setting in since the sign instructing to change sides was partially obstructed by foliage and 25 metres beforehand isn't really a hanging matter, also him drifting across in front of me whilst he faffed around with his camera (as that is what he was doing) was more of an issue than me changing sides too soon.  I commented that the rule concerning change of sides probably wasn't a good idea, and the additional rule that downstream boats have to give way to upstream boats was contrary to general navigation rules on pretty much all other rivers. "Oh I've never heard of that" was his reply. He then wanted to know why I had kept to the starboard side of the river (before the changeover) when he had wanted to pass me further back, I advised him that it was because passing should be done on the port side, so I'd moved across to allow him to pass, again "Oh I've never heard of that, we pass on what side we want". He also seemed to think that it was a bit of an imposition that, with other leisure boats on the river, he had to keep turning around to make sure the way ahead of him was clear (if you travel in something with your back to direction of travel, that is something you have to live with). His final comment was that in the past 2 years he has had 3 head on collisions with leisure boats, I tried to express some sympathy but failed dismally.

 

The overall impression gained is that, as a rower, he felt an 'entitlement' on the river and everything else should get out of his way. I subsequently checked the Bylaws of the Conservators of the River Cam where is clearly states,"....The master of a vessel on any part of the River shall observe and obey the International Regulations for Collision at Sea with the exceptions, additions and variations contained in these Byelaws(the bit about changing sides of the river).." so, whilst I have a duty to avoid colliding with him, he also has a duty to avoid colliding with me, something I don't think he had quite comprehended. Whilst I will always, as per colregs, give way to sail, in future rowers had better look out  

[Tracy D'arth]

I have had troubles with rowers or is it scullers on the Bridgewater canal at dusk. They scull towards you, can't see where they are going, oars out both sides, no lights and no one on the bank warning.

They expect a 70 foot boat to get out of the channel to let them pass, get real shirty when we blow the horn at them.

[magnetman]

There are words to describe this type of oarsman but they are rude words. 

 

There was a case some years ago where a narrow boat or barge hit a rower and I think it broke the vessel in half or something. The boat skipper was found liable for not keeping a proper lookout. 

 

 

ETA it was this case which was won by the rower. 

 

https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/13397607.rower-sues-after-river-boat-crash/

 

The defence claimed that the barge was on the correct side of the channel and that the rower converged. Prosecution argued the opposite. 

 

I reckon it was the rower getting in the way that's the normal form. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by magnetman

[pearley]

I've never understood why on the Cam boats are expected to change sides for that short stretch of river. From memory in one direction it's not a problem as visibility is good but going the other way you can't be certain that another boat is not going to coming round the corner.

[magnetman]

8 minutes ago, pearley said:

I've never understood why on the Cam boats are expected to change sides for that short stretch of river. 

It could easily just be to do with attitude. Some of the rowers seem to have significant attitude problems in that they appear to think that they should get special treatment while looking the opposite way to which they are moving. It's other people who need to look out not the rowers. It took them decades to work out what a mirror is. 

 

It's a completely pointless activity anyway similar to high speed cycling on towpaths. They should be on lakes. 

 

If they can get other people to alter their behaviour for them it gives them a warm feeling of some sort ?

Edited August 24, 2020 by magnetman

[GUMPY]

There is a certain type of entitled person, normally rides a bike in full lycra, rows a skinny little boat, etc,etc

They are all saving the planet and us diesel burners are killing their world.

They all deserve to be treated with the same contempt.

 

[ditchcrawler]

He is in Cambridge and he rows. thats all you need to know/

[Keeping Up]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Whilst I will always, as per colregs, give way to sail, in future rowers had better look out  

How long is your boat? If it is over 20m (about 65ft) you don't need to give way to anything smaller when in the restricted confines of a river, including sailing or rowing boats. Just quote Colreg rule 9b at them.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 hour ago, pearley said:

I've never understood why on the Cam boats are expected to change sides for that short stretch of river. From memory in one direction it's not a problem as visibility is good but going the other way you can't be certain that another boat is not going to coming round the corner.

Having had the 'interesting' conversation with my rower, I can answer your query. The reason for the change of sides is so that the 8 man boats when racing can 'take the racing line' around those corners when rowing from Baits Bite Lock to Cambridge (left hand side of the river on a left hand side corner). I have no issue with that when racing but why he seemed to think we should get out of the way when all they are doing is training is beyond me. If there is a proper regatta on, it will be marshalled and other boats kept out of the way, he seemed to think that should be the normal state of affairs.

 

Part of our conversation was that when on that section, if you do meet a boat head on, do you avoid to starboard?(colregs) or port? All the signs say is that you should change sides of the river but don't make clear that the actual collision avoidance is reversed (or not).

Edited August 24, 2020 by Wanderer Vagabond

[Wanderer Vagabond]

10 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

How long is your boat? If it is over 20m (about 65ft) you don't need to give way to anything smaller when in the restricted confines of a river, including sailing or rowing boats. Just quote Colreg rule 9b at them.

The boat is 18m (60ft) so not quite long enough. I'm not sure he'd have any idea what colregs are if I quoted any to him. What also irked me was he 'advised' me that I should have got out of the way of a coxless 4 that was also rowing along at the same time. I told him that I couldn't because the top was too near the bottom for me and I was already grounding. I had made every reasonable effort not to obstruct the rowers and then get some clown 'lecture' me means that next time I come across rowers they are going to have to comply with colregs as well and wont be getting any special treatment from me. We might have a late trip onto the Thames in the autumn, so it could get interesting

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

How long is your boat? If it is over 20m (about 65ft) you don't need to give way to anything smaller when in the restricted confines of a river, including sailing or rowing boats. Just quote Colreg rule 9b at them.

Its amazing how Colregs apply to rivers and canals when convenient, but don't when its not convenient.

[Detling]

1 hour ago, Loddon said:

There is a certain type of entitled person, normally rides a bike in full lycra, rows a skinny little boat, etc,etc

They are all saving the planet and us diesel burners are killing their world.

They all deserve to be treated with the same contempt.

 

Also used to drive a BMW now has an AUDI and owns the road.

[GUMPY]

2 minutes ago, Detling said:

Also used to drive a BMW now has an AUDI and owns the road.

No if they drive it has to be a Tesla

Sanctimonious tw@'s

[Detling]

Try sailing a dinghy amongst the wet bods in their long 8's. I have had  a few problems with them over the years. They stop for a coach or cox lecture, leaving you with a few feet of shallow water between their oars and the bank. They decide to try a racing start as you are crossing 20 yards in front of them, and wonder why you can't turn or move in the 1 second it takes their spear to cover that distance with 8 beefy men on the oars. Being of course mainly offspring of the great and good, you have no hope of explaining that they could possibly need to think of others.

[nbfiresprite]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Its amazing how Colregs apply to rivers and canals when convenient, but don't when its not convenient.

ColRegs or any other rules on the River Cam don't apply to a rower or rower's who are Undergrad's, Grad's, Post Grads, Fellows or Don's of any college who forms part of the Cambridge University. A common view held by members of the colleges who think they are above everybody else.

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

The elderly skiff rower ahead then chose to stop for no obvious reason that I could see. As I started to steer to go around him his boat began to drift across the river whilst he was fannying around with whatever he was doing. This was forcing me to go further and further to the 'wrong' side of the river to pass him. He eventually got going again and we continued on our separate ways.

 

So why did you try and go round him? If it had been a narrow boat which stopped in front of you would you just have gone round it? Or would you have waited to see what he was up to, and then maybe establish some sort of communication (hand signals or speech), to agree who was going to do what?

4 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

so, whilst I have a duty to avoid colliding with him, he also has a duty to avoid colliding with me, something I don't think he had quite comprehended.

But he didn't collide with you, did he.

 

There have been rowing boats on the Cam for far longer than there have been motorised pleasure craft. Some of the comments on here suggest a distinct sense of entitlement from narrow boaters!

[nbfiresprite]

23 minutes ago, David Mack said:

There have been rowing boats on the Cam for far longer than there have been motorised pleasure craft. Some of the comments on here suggest a distinct sense of entitlement from narrow boaters!

There is a distinct sense of entitlement from members of the colleges. The same in Oxford.

[magnetman]

Similar thing at Henley. They definitely seem to think they own the River. Ok they may own the River bed but the waterway has a PRN status which means one can use it. 

 

Of course it's possible that the whole social distancing thing got the rowers all agitated and now they are allowed back into the quads and eights they are attempting to reassert some sort of control over their water. 

 

Territorial behaviour happens with humans just as much as with animals. 

 

Watch they don't piss against your tiller. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by magnetman

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

 

So why did you try and go round him? If it had been a narrow boat which stopped in front of you would you just have gone round it? Or would you have waited to see what he was up to, and then maybe establish some sort of communication (hand signals or speech), to agree who was going to do what?

But he didn't collide with you, did he.

 

There have been rowing boats on the Cam for far longer than there have been motorised pleasure craft. Some of the comments on here suggest a distinct sense of entitlement from narrow boaters!

If narrow boat stopped in front of me, wasn't making any effort to carry out any particular manoeuvre didn't appear to be in any sort of distress or require help, the answer would be yes I would make an effort to go around him/her, (the river is 85 feet wide at this point) would you just sit there all day waiting for something to happen? The guy was raking around in his boat (looking for his camera as it turns out). As he was the one drifting across the river, the reason that no collision took place was due to my efforts, nothing to do with him.

 

I should add that the coxless 4 that he referred to did come as close to colliding with the back end of my boat until I called out (horn is at the wrong end of the boat for them to have heard). I got the impression that they were novices since, without any input from me, and some way after they had passed me, they managed to run into the bankside.

 

There was no 'sense of entitlement' from me, I merely resent taking 'advice' from someone who doesn't have any conception of normal river rules, such as overtaking boats on the port side, (there is a safety reason for this) or even why giving way to downstream boats is the norm elsewhere (once again there is a reason for this).

Edited August 24, 2020 by Wanderer Vagabond

[Scholar Gypsy]

As someone who used to row there, and takes my NB up there quite a bit, all year round, as you say the reason for the odd rules of the road is that (normally) the racing course is upstream, and boats normally warm up and do technical exercises on the way downstream to Baits Bite and then more substantial "pieces" on the way upstream. That rule is in place all the time, for training outings, not just during regattas (and bumping races, the main mode of competition). All rowers would expect to give way to boats coming upstream. 

 

I certainly wouldn't overtake a stationary boat in front of me unless I was sure the river was clear around the next corner (as you say his reason for stopping is a bit odd!).  I'd normally aim to switch sides (from left to right) midway between first post and grassy corners, and to cross sharply. If you cross too early then it is possible you would obstruct an eight coming upstream, by crossing in front of them rather than behind them.  

 

I keep a lung powered horn at the back to attract the attention of rowers at risk of ramming me from behind.

 

If there is a serious stream in the river, then rowing (by both Town and University clubs) will be suspended.  (The College system is, obviously, not working at the moment: https://www.cucbc.org/flag) .

 

If you want a complete breakdown of the normal rules, try taking a boat up through the middle of Cambridge (1 October - 31 March only), picking your way through the punts.  

Edited August 24, 2020 by Scholar Gypsy

[Scholar Gypsy]

A nice early morning shot. Two of the boats ahead decided to turn around ..

[Wanderer Vagabond]

16 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

As someone who used to row there, and takes my NB up there quite a bit, all year round, as you say the reason for the odd rules of the road is that (normally) the racing course is upstream, and boats normally warm up and do technical exercises on the way downstream to Baits Bite and then more substantial "pieces" on the way upstream. That rule is in place all the time, for training outings, not just during regattas (and bumping races, the main mode of competition). All rowers would expect to give way to boats coming upstream. 

 

I certainly wouldn't overtake a stationary boat in front of me unless I was sure the river was clear around the next corner (as you say his reason for stopping is a bit odd!).  I'd normally aim to switch sides (from left to right) midway between first post and grassy corners, and to cross sharply. If you cross too early then it is possible you would obstruct an eight coming upstream, by crossing in front of them rather than behind them.  

 

I keep a lung powered horn at the back to attract the attention of rowers at risk of ramming me from behind.

 

If there is a serious stream in the river, then rowing (by both town and University clubs) will be suspended.  (The College system is, obviously, not working at the moment: https://www.cucbc.org/flag) .

 

If you want a complete breakdown of the normal rules, try taking a boat up through the middle of Cambridge (1 October - 31 March only), picking your way through the punts.  

On the day in question (Sunday) I had a pretty good idea of how many rowing boats were out, there was something like 4 single skiffs, one novice coxless 4 and my 'friend' in his wooden skiff, there were no eight's on the water so all I had to be aware of were the single skiffs coming back from Baits Bite.  Where I was passing my 'friend' was after the first bend (coming out from Cambridge) into the 'contra-flow' section, just before where the 'eco boat' moors. There was never going to be an issue of meeting any rowers that I couldn't avoid coming the other way, it was principally the guy's need to photograph to 'prove' some point that rankled. If the changeover point was so important they really need to do a bit of hedge-cutting since the sign telling downstream boats where to cross is almost obscured by vegetation. Given the current lack of competitions going on, there didn't seem much training happening generally.

 

I'd expect chaos with punters much as I'd expect chaos with the profusion of amateur canoeists in inflatables there are about at the moment, they are almost guaranteed to do the unexpected (do they really punt between October and March?) but at least the amateur canoeists don't then try to lecture me on what they think I've done wrong.

 

As I said in the OP, I'm content to criticise those on that section of river because I shan't be coming back, the Cambridge Visitor Moorings are rubbish

[Scholar Gypsy]

8 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

On the day in question (Sunday) I had a pretty good idea of how many rowing boats were out, there was something like 4 single skiffs, one novice coxless 4 and my 'friend' in his wooden skiff, there were no eight's on the water so all I had to be aware of were the single skiffs coming back from Baits Bite.  Where I was passing my 'friend' was after the first bend (coming out from Cambridge) into the 'contra-flow' section, just before where the 'eco boat' moors. There was never going to be an issue of meeting any rowers that I couldn't avoid coming the other way, it was principally the guy's need to photograph to 'prove' some point that rankled. If the changeover point was so important they really need to do a bit of hedge-cutting since the sign telling downstream boats where to cross is almost obscured by vegetation. Given the current lack of competitions going on, there didn't seem much training happening generally.

 

I'd expect chaos with punters much as I'd expect chaos with the profusion of amateur canoeists in inflatables there are about at the moment, they are almost guaranteed to do the unexpected (do they really punt between October and March?) but at least the amateur canoeists don't then try to lecture me on what they think I've done wrong.

 

As I said in the OP, I'm content to criticise those on that section of river because I shan't be coming back, the Cambridge Visitor Moorings are rubbish

Ah right, you are one corner further upstream than I thought. Sorry about that.  Once you've gone round the left hand bend at Ditton corner then, as you say, you have a good view of traffic coming upstream, and can cross to the left if the river is clear.  It's fun doing all this in the middle of the bumping races in June!

 

Yes the punts keep going all year around, especially the chauffeured punts who normally know what they are doing. 

 

It is a pity there are only six VMs, I agree - but there is a lot of pressure (and a long waiting list) on residential slots as you will have noticed