BSS problem

[markeymark]

I have just failed my BSS on a few items but one has stumped me. I have a 1987 boat with a BMC 1.5 and at present the return diesel pipe (spill line?) goes from the second AV filter on the block back to the first filter...which is a failure. I have been given 2 options . (a ) reroute return pipe direct to tank or (b) put in non-return valve -

where does the non-return valve go....in-line on the return pipe between the 2 filters,  or should I take off a Tee from the pipe from the tank to the first filter and put the return from the second filter  to the Tee? Can I buy a compression fitting non-return valve with olives to save soldering and how do I block off the outlet where the return pipe went back into the first fillter?

Any help appreciated ...thanks.

[Tony Brooks]

Is it a failure? Asking for air lock problems but until I am told differently not a fail as long as the supply has a shut off valve on it.

[PhilR]

Presumably your boat must have passed a few previous BSCs?

The spill rail should, preferably, go back to the tank. Interesting that this hasn't been picked up before?

Good luck.

[Rob-M]

Just now, PhilR said:

Presumably your boat must have passed a few previous BSCs?

The spill rail should, preferably, go back to the tank. Interesting that this hasn't been picked up before?

Good luck.

Just having the same thoughts, if nothing has changed from previous inspections then why a fail this time...?

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, PhilR said:

Presumably your boat must have passed a few previous BSCs?

The spill rail should, preferably, go back to the tank. Interesting that this hasn't been picked up before?

Good luck.

I would say vital for reliability on a BMC but there are Pentas with the return to a filter and the system and i have never heard that it caused a fail.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Just having the same thoughts, if nothing has changed from previous inspections then why a fail this time...?

 

Another example of inconsistent examinations / examiners.

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Rob-M said:

Just having the same thoughts, if nothing has changed from previous inspections then why a fail this time...?

It may be to do with the change in regs to allow spill rail hose because I think if you have a hose type spill rail that is not marked as suitable you need a NRV on it, not that I can think why. I suspect another inspector making it up until its proven different.

[PhilR]

I still think if it was a potential problem on a previous BSC it should have been noted as an *advisory* at that time, rather than a failure now.

 

What other items did your boat fail on Markeymark?

[markeymark]

13 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Just having the same thoughts, if nothing has changed from previous inspections then why a fail this time...?

I know what you are saying and I would have thought it would have passed but the examiner said it was a new reg. Funnily enough the fire extinguishers were well out of date (2009) and yet the boat had a BSS 4 years ago so maybe whoever did it was a cowboy ( I bought the boat  3 years ago). The examiner also said the cable from the split charge relay was too small and I would have to change that too to a 25mm sq  but that cable had been there for years too...its most odd. Anyway if I have to put a  non-return valve in then is it easy to do myself?

[markeymark]

Just now, PhilR said:

I still think if it was a potential problem on a previous BSC it should have been noted as an *advisory* at that time, rather than a failure now.

 

What other items did your boat fail on Markeymark?

Fire extinguishers (  11 years out of date) so have bought new ones.

Woodburner not fixed to floor...easy to fix

Battery cable too small (he says it must be 25mm sq)..easy to fix

[WotEver]

5 minutes ago, markeymark said:

The examiner also said the cable from the split charge relay was too small and I would have to change that too to a 25mm sq  but that cable had been there for years too...its most odd

Not so odd, that one.  All battery interconnects must be at least 25mm² and VSR cabling would certainly class as a battery interconnect.

2 minutes ago, markeymark said:

Fire extinguishers (  11 years out of date) so have bought new ones.

Woodburner not fixed to floor...easy to fix

Battery cable too small (he says it must be 25mm sq)..easy to fix

Obviously the previous examiner was pretty lax to have not picked these up at the last BSS.

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, markeymark said:

Fire extinguishers (  11 years out of date) so have bought new ones.

Woodburner not fixed to floor...easy to fix

Battery cable too small (he says it must be 25mm sq)..easy to fix

The whole system is a joke and nothing but "jobs for the boys".

 

I had a BSS pass in 2015 with these fire extinguishers :

 

 

 

[markeymark]

38 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Is it a failure? Asking for air lock problems but until I am told differently not a fail as long as the supply has a shut off valve on it.

There is a shut off valve by the tank but the examiner said that there was a fire risk without the non-return valve. From my perspective, if there was fire in the engine bay I am unlikely to want to put my hand down to close off the tap on the fuel line which is under the deck  and could be surrounded by flames/smoke, I would tackle it with an extinguisher

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

The whole system is a joke and nothing but "jobs for the boys".

 

I had a BSS pass in 2015 with these fire extinguishers :

 

 

 

You're right...considering that many peoples BSS have expired and there is a tailback for tests due to Covid then theoretically boaters shouldnt be using their boats. My local 'enforcer' from CRT told me not to worry and to get the BSS before my licence expires...which is Jan 2021 !!

[Tony Brooks]

9 minutes ago, markeymark said:

There is a shut off valve by the tank but the examiner said that there was a fire risk without the non-return valve.

A fire risk maybe but how large a risk is open to question. If this was my boat I would ask the examiner to show me the relevant in writing from the BSS office. If he was unable or unwilling I would be imidiately emailing and writing to the BSS office demanding site of the regulation or they issue a pass certificate. it is only by boaters doing that will the 4esult be the examiners stop claiming best practice and personal opinion are in fact BSS regulations.

[Rob-M]

13 minutes ago, markeymark said:

There is a shut off valve by the tank but the examiner said that there was a fire risk without the non-return valve. From my perspective, if there was fire in the engine bay I am unlikely to want to put my hand down to close off the tap on the fuel line which is under the deck  and could be surrounded by flames/smoke, I would tackle it with an extinguisher

You're right...considering that many peoples BSS have expired and there is a tailback for tests due to Covid then theoretically boaters shouldnt be using their boats. My local 'enforcer' from CRT told me not to worry and to get the BSS before my licence expires...which is Jan 2021 !!

Did your insurance company agree to waiting that long...?

[markeymark]

Just now, Rob-M said:

Did your insurance company agree to waiting that long...?

Good point..they dont know !! I had thought of ringing them and asking  for a refund as I have been unable to go out on the cut for 3 months due to the lockdown.

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

A fire risk maybe but how large a risk is open to question. If this was my boat I would ask the examiner to show me the relevant in writing from the BSS office. If he was unable or unwilling I would be imidiately emailing and writing to the BSS office demanding site of the regulation or they issue a pass certificate. it is only by boaters doing that will the 4esult be the examiners stop claiming best practice and personal opinion are in fact BSS regulations.

I dont want to intimidate the examiner so may just write to BSS office and ask their opinion. Thanks

[markeymark]

Just now, markeymark said:

Good point..they dont know !! I had thought of ringing them and asking  for a refund as I have been unable to go out on the cut for 3 months due to the lockdown.

I dont want to intimidate the examiner so may just write to BSS office and ask their opinion. Thanks

Funnily enough I spoke to Ru at Armada Boats who does my blacking and he told me that he thought the examiner was wrong. Considering that Armada has hire boats then he could well be right

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

A fire risk maybe but how large a risk is open to question. If this was my boat I would ask the examiner to show me the relevant in writing from the BSS office. If he was unable or unwilling I would be imidiately emailing and writing to the BSS office demanding site of the regulation or they issue a pass certificate. it is only by boaters doing that will the 4esult be the examiners stop claiming best practice and personal opinion are in fact BSS regulations.

 

I have done just that on a number of occasions, all you get is they cannot discuss these things but they will investigate and if necessary the examiner will be asked to take further training.

 

On one occasion they agreed that an RCD was only an advisory despite the examiner 'failing' the boat.

[Tony Brooks]

I would intimidate the examiner and maybe threaten to sue him unless he showed his evidence.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I would intimidate the examiner and maybe threaten to sue him unless he showed his evidence.

 

It would appear that the rules have been in place since 2015, so previous examiners may have been somewhat less than diligent, but just reinforces the variability of the quality of examiner.

 

 

2.10.5 Do the injector leak‐off (spill rail) arrangements meet specified requirements? R

Check the arrangements for the injector leak‐off (spill rail). Injector leak‐off (spill rail) arrangements must meet all the requirements for fuel feed and return pipes, hose and connections, or

• utilise the direct return to tank, or

• return to the fuel system through a non‐return valve.

 

NOTE – vintage and traditional engines designed to return the injector leak‐off fuel to a catch pot are acceptable provided the catch pot is securely mounted and is free of signs of leaks, signs of damage or deterioration. NOTE – injector leak‐off hoses fitted by the manufacturer within an enclosure on the engine meet this requirement

Edited August 16, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony Brooks]

In that case I have learned something. seems the examiner was correct but for reliability I would be moving the leak off back to the top of the tank.

[keelingtom]

Hi

 

It would help if you posted the BSSER (fail report) as that will show the failed item number and the explanation verbatim. 
 

You should contact the BSS office to discuss if you are concerned. 
 

Regards 

 

Tom 

[Alan de Enfield]

56 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

In that case I have learned something. seems the examiner was correct but for reliability I would be moving the leak off back to the top of the tank.

In fact looking further back the exact same wording is used in the Jan 2013 Edition of the BSS

 

2.10.5 Do the injector leak-off (spill rail) arrangements meet specified requirements? R

Check the arrangements for the injector leak-off (spill rail). Injector leak-off (spill rail) arrangements must meet all the requirements for fuel feed and return pipes, hose and connections, or

· utilise the direct return to tank, or

· return to the fuel system through a non-return valve.

Applicability – vintage and traditional engines designed to return the injector leak-off fuel to a catch pot are acceptable provided the catch pot is securely mounted and is free of signs of leaks, signs of damage or deterioration.

Applicability – injector leak-off hoses fitted by the manufacturer within an enclosure on the engine meet this

[PhilR]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

In that case I have learned something. seems the examiner was correct but for reliability I would be moving the leak off back to the top of the tank.

It is probably worth noting that approx 30% of what we all pay for a BSS inspection goes to the agents acting on behalf of CaRT.

When BW and EA were running the show and brought in the scheme  they sent us all a hardbound copy of the regulations.

Nowadays we are lucky to find anything online.

[AndrewIC]

2 hours ago, markeymark said:

Funnily enough the fire extinguishers were well out of date (2009) and yet the boat had a BSS 4 years ago so maybe whoever did it was a cowboy ( I bought the boat  3 years ago).

Can you be certain that the extinguishers you inherited were the same as those present during the previous BSS?