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Nearly New Boats, Snagging and Surveys


Blue Knight

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@peterboat and @MrsM

 

Yes, you're both on the money.  I don't have a Facebook account but this is a generic pic of the internal fit-out, below.

 

It's certainly a useful layout which both of us could use founded on our off-grid motorhoming experience.  I have a couple of thoughts with regard to the toilet volume and solar capacity but that's a different subject entirely. 

 

We'll probably jump in the van and go off exploring in the next few days to look at the various boats available, new and old.

 

The more boats we see in terms of the layout and the various technical/equipment capacities then the better we can understand our boat choice.

 

I think I'm already piecing together a good picture of any future boat and its capacity requirements though.

 

Very best,

 

Andrew

 

430986455_Screenshot_20200826-124825_SamsungInternet.jpg.b154660e55379539f82186b5b379141a.jpg

 

 

Edited by Blue Knight
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The P&Jones looks very well equipped and very cheap for what it is. We paid not too much short of that for a secondhand boat 13/14 years ago!!!   Maybe they are relatively new and trying to make a name for themselves, I note they have a F'book page but not a website, and all this open day/invitation stuff sounds like marketing. If you like the feel of the boat and it really is for sale then you should be seriously tempted, but take the money with you to slap right down on the table. It might be that they are just sucking people in for the next build.

The usual advice here is to get a cheaper second hand boat to learn about boats and better define what you want, but good second hand boats are not easy to find just now.

Its really not my type of boat so this is impartial advice ?

 

...............Dave

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10 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

I think this is good advice. The OP certainly does not know what he wants .....given that a week ago he was looking at a widebeam and now a narrowbeam.

 

 

This has been a very interesting exercise for me Bob and I'm at that stage now where I can start assimilating a final list of requirements  Unless we spend time and effort in designing a specifc boat/house/motorhome to our exact requirements then nothing will be 100% perfect.  This is something which I've learnt over the years from our motorhoming hobby and also from our house business too.

 

What a difference a week or two makes in terms of adding or discounting said requirements. The widebeam concept was a bad idea, for sure, but these last few days of analysis has certainly helped refine my thoughts towards a full network-capable, c.55ft NB, with a technical capacity to support off-grid living.

 

The quantity of advice available on this forum has been slightly overwhelming ('info overload' comes to mind) but you guys have been truly outstanding and the huge variety of differing ideas and opinions has certainly given me food for thought!

 

The next step is to get the motorhome packed and get a few more boat viewings under our belt(s). 

 

Thanks again for your help and advice.

 

All the best,

 

Andrew

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31 minutes ago, dmr said:

The P&Jones looks very well equipped and very cheap for what it is. We paid not too much short of that for a secondhand boat 13/14 years ago!!!   Maybe they are relatively new and trying to make a name for themselves, I note they have a F'book page but not a website, and all this open day/invitation stuff sounds like marketing. If you like the feel of the boat and it really is for sale then you should be seriously tempted, but take the money with you to slap right down on the table. It might be that they are just sucking people in for the next build.

The usual advice here is to get a cheaper second hand boat to learn about boats and better define what you want, but good second hand boats are not easy to find just now.

Its really not my type of boat so this is impartial advice ?

 

...............Dave

 

Yes Dave, I'm thinking along the same lines as you sir. The guy who builds them (Luke) seems to produce a boat every 4-month or so; each has a good usable spec and a very modern and fresh interior from what I've seen and researched.

 

One point that Nicky and I dislike about some boats viewed so far is the earthy and dated fitouts so a modern looking interior is probably best for us.

 

The one big positive about the Patching-Jones boat is that if someone were to buy it and it turned out to be utter poop (following many months of blogging the fit-out and the equipment installation process by Luke himself) then I'm certain he would find it very difficult to sell his next.  Call me daft but I have a feeling that this guy puts a lot of effort into his work.

 

Thanks again Dave,

 

Andrew

 

Edited by Blue Knight
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We came to the canals quite late (but not nearly as late as some), children and jobs plus living in a non-canal part of the country were the problem, though as Birmingham/Black Country people we always had a canal connection. We decided life was too short to mess about with a string of boats so decided to "get the last boat first". We did not get it right but got very close.

If you want to do the same then have a quick look at traddy trad boats with portholes and backcabins and engines in engine rooms etc etc.....even a tug deck might be possible.

 

................Dave

 

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Be sure to check out the quality of materials used.

 

A friend bought a "cheap" new build, which had a Wilson shell and a bright modern interior.

 

2 years later he has front doors which won't close because they were made of softwood and the galley needs replacing because the cut down domestic vinyl covered chipboard units and worktop are swelling were the joints to the butler sink have let water get into them.

 

Beware of an "all fur coat and no knickers" interior.

 

Hopefully in your case he is selling the boats cheap to build up a reputation before charging more for them, but not all new bodybuilders do this.

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3 hours ago, cuthound said:

Be sure to check out the quality of materials used.

 

A friend bought a "cheap" new build, which had a Wilson shell and a bright modern interior.

 

2 years later he has front doors which won't close because they were made of softwood and the galley needs replacing because the cut down domestic vinyl covered chipboard units and worktop are swelling were the joints to the butler sink have let water get into them.

 

Beware of an "all fur coat and no knickers" interior.

 

Hopefully in your case he is selling the boats cheap to build up a reputation before charging more for them, but not all new bodybuilders do this.

Yep. Fully agree.

The spec list on the previous page didnt fill me with the impression this is the 'perfect' canal boat. Not a mention of the materials used to finish it. Hardwood/softwood/MDF etc? The spec sounds more like a bottom end of market boat. A 2KVA Sterling combi? Top end? A thetford stove and hob? Top end?

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24 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Yep. Fully agree.

The spec list on the previous page didnt fill me with the impression this is the 'perfect' canal boat. Not a mention of the materials used to finish it. Hardwood/softwood/MDF etc? The spec sounds more like a bottom end of market boat. A 2KVA Sterling combi? Top end? A thetford stove and hob? Top end?

Still, its outstanding turnkey value for money.

I can see the economies, no windows, factory chip kitchen, plastic coated board line out etc.  But if its all screwed together well its good value. I would never tolerate chipboard or MDF in a boat. I would want to see the insulation before it was covered up.

17 mains sockets! Really?

Bits can be replaced in a few years but the shell and most of the appliances are proper.

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2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Still, its outstanding turnkey value for money.

I can see the economies, no windows, factory chip kitchen, plastic coated board line out etc.  But if its all screwed together well its good value. I would never tolerate chipboard or MDF in a boat. I would want to see the insulation before it was covered up.

17 mains sockets! Really?

Bits can be replaced in a few years but the shell and most of the appliances are proper.

The gallery on their web site shows sprayed insulation.

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4 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

 

Beware of an "all fur coat and no knickers" interior.

 

 

Quite so. As the boat is offered at a good price (a bit of a shock to realise that over £1,500 per foot is now regarded as cheap!), and as it has a very good spec (FOUR leisure batteries, stainless steel water tank, soft-close cupboard doors, solar panels, lots of power sockets, etc etc.) one does feel that Mr. Patching and Mr. Jones must have saved money somewhere, and that the former's surname does not describe the fit-out. The only economy I noticed was that it had only two fire extinguishers, and I didn't notice anything about exterior painting or signwriting, so perhaps that comes extra.

   Do attend the show and try to get a good look at what materials have been used.

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Just checked out Great Haywood Boat Sales in response to another posting and noticed they have an older Patching Jones fit-out on their books. It's a 52ft cruiser called "A Good Year". If I was the OP, considering spending £90k on my first boat, I would be very tempted to look at this to see how it has aged. Could give a great indication about the quality of PJ's work?

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1 hour ago, MrsM said:

Just checked out Great Haywood Boat Sales in response to another posting and noticed they have an older Patching Jones fit-out on their books. It's a 52ft cruiser called "A Good Year". If I was the OP, considering spending £90k on my first boat, I would be very tempted to look at this to see how it has aged. Could give a great indication about the quality of PJ's work?

https://www.greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/shop/a-good-year/
Doesn't look as good as the new one.

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33 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

https://www.greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/shop/a-good-year/
Doesn't look as good as the new one.

It's a while since Harborough marine built shells so as someone suggested earlier it looks as if he fitted out old shells before his latest venture. Looks suitably 'London' with all the white paint .

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1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Sure its a refit on an older hull. The windows are a give away.

You can see he has learnt a lot about fitting out a boat in the interval. Presentation on the new one is streets ahead.

Yes those windows are a give-away aren't they?
 

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  • 2 weeks later...
22 minutes ago, Blue Knight said:

In summary the P-J had a good price point but, as @Dr Bob mentioned previously in this thread, it appears that most of the sub-£105,000 are thrown together with little skill and often by folk who are not typical boat builders.

Andrew, glad you came to the same conclusion as us. Buying a new boat for a novice is not for the fainthearted. Glad to see you have done your research very well.

I'm glad you got down to Hanbury wharf as seeing a Collingwood alongside an Aqualine allows you to see the difference in a £90K to £140K boat. Why would anyone buy a new Collingwood?

We tried hard to find a 1-4 year old boat to avoid the snagging list issues but there were just none on the market in the 6 months we looked hence the need to go for new.

Good luck in your search. I reckon you do know what you are looking for now!

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On 17/08/2020 at 20:09, matty40s said:

10 years ago things got dredged and fixed.

A lot has changed since you were last here.

 

One of the boatmovers on the 1st boat pictured said he wouldnt be doing one of those again for love nor money.

If it got dredged then surely it's deeper than it was before? Anyway my boat draws 2'2" at the skeg. If my boat scrapes the bottom then just about every narrowboat will be scraping the bottom too.

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1 hour ago, Blue Knight said:

Hi @MrsM we did go and view the boat but we also saw 50 other boats for internal inspection and 35 for close-up inspection during our 7-day, 1,300-mile visit in our motorhome.

 

I've now got a fairly accurate idea of quality, market trends, best brokerages to deal with and, of course, what style, layout and technical spec would suite us for constant Crusing.

 

Six of the marinas visited had new NBs for sale and all had a price variation of between £89,000 for the P-J boat right through to Piper and Aqualine boats at c.£140K fully fitted. We also viewed the Knight Boats at c.£118K; and there were the small time builders with their own fit-outs that we're built on Jonathan Tyler and Colingwood hulls, priced at c.£94K each.  (We also saw a few dozen secondhand boats).

 

The P-J boat can be had for c.£85K and IMO is well equipped albeit the finishing of the boat is not precise and the minor snagging list would be longish. 

 

The new NBs at 'New & Used Boats, Mercia Marina', (c.£95K) also looked fresh and were well equipped but the fit-out materials and the general build quality seen is what I would expect from a new budget Taylor Wimpy House. It then became apparent that these boats had been fitted out by actual house builders and not by boat builders as I had first expected.  

 

The Aqualine, Piper and Knight Boats were better quality with the Aqualine being top of the pile albeit a new Aqualine NB was in the process of being returned to the dealer as it was having huge problems with bubbling paintwork.

 

In summary the P-J had a good price point but, as @Dr Bob mentioned previously in this thread, it appears that most of the sub-£105,000 are thrown together with little skill and often by folk who are not typical boat builders.

 

It's nice to have a new shiny boat purchase but some/most of the new ones viewed would almost certainly start falling to bits in a couple of years.

 

We now have a fairly good plan on what we want from a boat but, it's also appropriate to say that the experience of the last 7-days has been worthwhile and I would certainly advise any newbie to do mass viewings/comparisons without committing themselves first.  However, the trip was also stressful, tiring and frustrating at times.

 

I'll start a thread on my experience of the various brokerages from a newbies perspective as one particlair broker was utter appalling.

 

I hope this makes for interesting reading.

 

All the best,

 

Andrew

Gosh you really have been busy and I expect you are both exhausted! I thought we were being thorough after looking at a dozen shortlisted boats. I do hope you find your perfect boat and I'm sure all the effort you have put in will be well worth it. Many thanks for sharing your experience with us. Mx

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13 hours ago, MrsM said:

Gosh you really have been busy and I expect you are both exhausted! I thought we were being thorough after looking at a dozen shortlisted boats. I do hope you find your perfect boat and I'm sure all the effort you have put in will be well worth it. Many thanks for sharing your experience with us. Mx

Having looked inside 50 boats, and the outside of another 35, I am surprised that one hasn't said "BUY ME!!!", and the deal done.

 

Having said that, I started looking a year before I bought, but the money to buy didn't materialise, even though a few were real contenders. (as a matter of interest, the contenders all sold very quickly).

 

A year later when we had the money, having watched the market fairly closely for the year, I was able to home in on 4 or 5 boats to view in a day, and it was actually the first we saw that said "BUY ME!!!", so we offered the asking price there and then, and didn't bother with the rest.

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