Nearly New Boats, Snagging and Surveys

[Blue Knight]

4 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

I'd agree with that. For many, widebeam ownership hasn't worked out, but I can't help thinking that in many cases that's because the owners were presented with some sort of luxury lifestyle and imagined they wouldn't need to be boaty at all. So the fact it hasn't worked out is less to do with the actual boats and much more to do with the owners. 

 

Anyway, I can only really talk for myself. Widebeam ownership has worked out well over the last 15 years and there's no way I'd go back to a sewer tube.

Yes this is all true.

It's great to hear that you've mastered the WB style boats but I'm not at all confident that such a wide boat is for me now. This thread has made me realise that I was heading down the wrong rabbit hole.

 

Thanks for your input though as I've learnt some really useful points from you.

 

All the best,

 

Andrew

[Blue Knight]

2 hours ago, matty40s said:

 

ABNB are trying to make having a survey before sale a condition of sale, some other brokers recommend having survey/blacking/anodes done so the boat can be sold and taken away quickly.

Most surveyors will transfer the ownership of the survey for a small fee in these circumstances. I would find out who has done the survey and take it from there.

Thanks Matty, I've spent the last hour or so going through every boat on ABNB and I won't lie to you sir; I'm starting to suffer from information overload.

 

There doesn't seem to be any Collingwood boats on the site but, that being said, every sales advert seems to be of a different length, engine, spec and builder.

 

...........and the prices seem all over the place (to a novice like me).

 

Are you aware if it's the owners that price their own boats for the respective adverts or is the pricing guide driven by ABNB itself?

 

Either way it does seem like a very well rounded brokerage.

 

Thanks again,

 

Andrew

 

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Blue Knight

[Richard10002]

 

19 minutes ago, Blue Knight said:

It's great to hear that you've mastered the WB style boats but I'm not at all confident that such a wide boat is for me now. This thread has made me realise that I was heading down the wrong rabbit hole.

 

Thanks for your input though as I've learnt some really useful points from you.

 

All the best,

 

Andrew

Bear in mind that a room on a narrow boat, at 6 feet wide is very, "narrow". A 10ft x 9ft room on a widebeam is a lovely size. Whilst you restrict the area you can cruise, there is a lot of canal available to a wide beam in the North, and in the South, but you cant have both  

Edited August 17, 2020 by Richard10002

[WotEver]

Just now, Richard10002 said:

there is a lot of canal available to a wide beam in the North, and in the South, but you cant have both

Besides, all the best bits are in the middle

[Richard10002]

4 minutes ago, Blue Knight said:

Are you aware if it's the owners that price their own boats for the respective adverts or is the pricing guide driven by ABNB itself?

I would expect ABNB will make a suggestion as to value, perhaps a range in which they expect the value to be, (sale in a reasonable period), and an appropriate asking price.

 

An owner might be happy with what they have heard, but want to try asking a bit/a lot more, for some reason. Or an owner might think that their boat IS worth a lot more, and want to ask a lot more. It is then for ABNB to decide whether they actually want to market the boat at the price the owner wants to ask.

 

The above will be part of the reason for price variations for what look like similar value boats. Not dissimilar to the second hand car or house market.

[Blue Knight]

12 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

I would expect ABNB will make a suggestion as to value, perhaps a range in which they expect the value to be, (sale in a reasonable period), and an appropriate asking price.

 

An owner might be happy with what they have heard, but want to try asking a bit/a lot more, for some reason. Or an owner might think that their boat IS worth a lot more, and want to ask a lot more. It is then for ABNB to decide whether they actually want to market the boat at the price the owner wants to ask.

 

The above will be part of the reason for price variations for what look like similar value boats. Not dissimilar to the second hand car or house market.

Yes, that makes a huge amount of sense Richard.

 

Also, if the current boating scene is anything like the UK motorhome sales figures at the moment then this staycation scenerio will continue to drive the prices artificially higher - by a good chunk too. 

 

The problem with the motorhome sales volume is that IMO a good number of newbie owners will think "damn, why did I spend all that cash on a hobby that I don't like much" when the cold light of day hits them in a few months. I can see it happening and perhaps with boats too.

[Blue Knight]

9 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

 

Bear in mind that a room on a narrow boat, at 6 feet wide is very, "narrow". A 10ft x 9ft room on a widebeam is a lovely size. Whilst you restrict the area you can cruise, there is a lot of canal available to a wide beam in the North, and in the South, but you cant have both  

 

It won't come as a surprise to you Richard but my head feels like a ping-pong ball today. I was so adamant last night that I was making progress in terms of boat width selection but now, errrrrr, nope.

 

You've thrown a curved ball there sir.

 

I think the best thing to do is for me to get my arse into gear and visit a few boats while scrutinizing the widebeam map that I have available.

 

This is my current map where the thick red line highlights the routes for 9+ft boats:

 

[WotEver]

3 minutes ago, Blue Knight said:

I was so adamant last night that I was making progress in terms of boat width selection but now, errrrrr, nope.

Have you spent any time on a narrowboat?  If you’re used to a motor home then the width is much the same, you simply have far more length. Layout makes a huge difference, those with a corridor down half the length of the boat feel claustrophobic to me. It is self-evident that a wider boat will feel more spacious but until you’ve spent some time on a narrowboat you won’t really know what it feels like. 

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, Blue Knight said:

 

It won't come as a surprise to you Richard but my head feels like a ping-pong ball today. I was so adamant last night that I was making progress in terms of boat width selection but now, errrrrr, nope.

 

You've thrown a curved ball there sir.

 

I think the best thing to do is for me to get my arse into gear and visit a few boats while scrutinizing the widebeam map that I have available.

 

This is my current map where the thick red line highlights the routes for 9+ft boats:

 

 

 

You want 'curved ball' - a 12' 6" foot beam will pretty much navigate those exact same waterways. The manufacturer is making a 'Marketing statement' to lull you away from wider boats.

 

The problems come into play when you meet another 12 foot beam boat going the other way and the 'channel' (the dredged bit) is only 20 feet wide (just enough for two 7 foot boats to pass)

 

Theory and practice are very different 'beasts'. The reality of cruising a 'fatty' (as I think you found out) is not always pleasant.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, Blue Knight said:

the thick red line highlights the routes for 9+ft boats:

 

Just to add to your confusion, I think a 9ft boat is worse than a 7ft boat.

 

On the 14ft broad canals you have to do all the locks by yourself as you are too wide to share, there's a 5 or 6 foot gap between the boat and the lockside so you can't easily cross using the cabin roof and you have to open all 4 gates.

 

I think the best size for the Northern canals is about 57 x 12 feet.  14 feet is too wide for easy cruising as some lock gates won't fully open if there is silt or debris behind them.

 

55 x 12 would be easier on the C&H when it reopens but 57 will fit.

[dmr]

The 9 foot boat does look like the worse of both worlds, though an extra 2 foot on a 6 foot cabin is a big relative increase. I suspect the 9 foot boat became popular to navigate the tunnels on the T&M to increase the Northern cruising range to Middlewich and give access to the Weaver without using the ship canal. Its a bit of an empty promise as those tunnels are tricky in a narrowboat so very few owners would want to take a wider boat through. I have followed a 9 footer through the tunnels and heard the bangs and scrapes.

 

....................Dave

[Tracy D'arth]

I have always thought that the wide beam map was very optimistic, some of the canals marked would have taken wider boats but today I think many would be a real pain in the posterior. Its not whether a boat will fit but can it pass another boat, is it going to be pleasant struggling in shallow water at the banks, are the reed beds encroaching too much?

Many of those canals have only ever seen narrow boats since the end of carrying until very recently. Full width channel maintenance no longer exists. Off side veg cutting is almost none existent, you will get well scratched very quickly. 

[dmr]

1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I have always thought that the wide beam map was very optimistic, some of the canals marked would have taken wider boats but today I think many would be a real pain in the posterior. Its not whether a boat will fit but can it pass another boat, is it going to be pleasant struggling in shallow water at the banks, are the reed beds encroaching too much?

Many of those canals have only ever seen narrow boats since the end of carrying until very recently. Full width channel maintenance no longer exists. Off side veg cutting is almost none existent, you will get well scratched very quickly. 

And then there is the issue of moored boats, especially wide'uns. The K&A for example was designed for wide boats but the designers did not plan for lines of moored boats intruding into the channel. A couple of bits on the K&A down towards Bath can be tricky enough in a narrowboat. Also some of the wide canals were never really built for widebeams, the locks were widened to take a pair of narrowboats side by side.

 

The Rochdale is no longer really a widebeam canal, especially  at the Manchester end, it can be done but its not enjoyable, This leaves the L&L and the Wigan flight as the only cross-Pennine route.

 

...............Dave

[Slim]

22 hours ago, dmr said:

It is said that a competent boater stands in the middle and knows were the sides of the boat are. I reckon a look down both sides just before a lock or bridge 'ole is a good idea in order to spot all the nasty sticky out bits.

 

..............Dave

On the boat photographed the helmsman would need to be Twizzle (remember that ?) . Extendable legs to see over the top and extendable arms to reach the wheel and throttle.

[WotEver]

8 minutes ago, Slim said:

On the boat photographed the helmsman would need to be Twizzle (remember that ?)

I do remember Twizzle. But whenever I’ve mentioned him in the past I’ve always been met with puzzled looks. So it appears it’s just you and me

[Slim]

18 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I have always thought that the wide beam map was very optimistic, some of the canals marked would have taken wider boats but today I think many would be a real pain in the posterior. Its not whether a boat will fit but can it pass another boat, is it going to be pleasant struggling in shallow water at the banks, are the reed beds encroaching too much?

Many of those canals have only ever seen narrow boats since the end of carrying until very recently. Full width channel maintenance no longer exists. Off side veg cutting is almost none existent, you will get well scratched very quickly. 

Correct me if I'm wrong (I often am) but on most  broad canals eg Grand Union and K&A the motor normally towed the butty line astern and only breasted up entering and departing locks.

[dmr]

9 minutes ago, Slim said:

On the boat photographed the helmsman would need to be Twizzle (remember that ?) . Extendable legs to see over the top and extendable arms to reach the wheel and throttle.

Most of these huge things look to be to the same design (Eurocruiser?) and have the wheel and controls right over one side of the boat. This is ideal for looking down one side of the boat but less good for general cruising.

 

...............Dave

[TheBiscuits]

17 minutes ago, dmr said:

This leaves the L&L and the Wigan flight as the only cross-Pennine route.

Notice Alert

Leeds & Liverpool Canal
Location: Wigan Flight, Leeds & Liverpool Canal
Starts At: Lock 65, Top Lock
Ends At: Lock 85, Lock 21

Tuesday 18 August 2020 10:00 until further notice

Type: Navigation Closure
Reason: Repair

---

 

Original message:

 

Please be advised the paddle stem at Lock 73 on the Leeds & Liverpool canal has snapped resulting in a navigation closure on the Wigan Flight.

Our teams are assisting those already on the flight, however padlocks have now been placed on Lock 65 (Top of Wigan Flight) and Lock 85 (Bottom of Wigan Flight) to prevent further movement on to the Flight.

Our teams have been informed and are on their way to site. An update will be provided this afternoon.

You can view this notice and its map online here:

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notices/18138-wigan-flight-leeds-and-liverpool-canal

 

[dmr]

1 minute ago, Slim said:

Correct me if I'm wrong (I often am) but on most  broad canals eg Grand Union and K&A the motor normally towed the butty line astern and only breasted up entering and departing locks.

 

That is most likely correct, but if the distance between locks was short I bet they stayed breasted up. This argument really applies to the Grand Union which is a narrow canal upgraded to wide locks. The K&A was built to take its own fleet of wide boats., it has a widebeam river navigation at both ends.

 

...............Dave

[Lady M]

Whether the boats were loaded or not may have had a bearing on how they travelled.

[Alan de Enfield]

40 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I do remember Twizzle. But whenever I’ve mentioned him in the past I’ve always been met with puzzled looks. So it appears it’s just you and me

 

Howsabout Inspector Gadget ?

 

[WotEver]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Howsabout Inspector Gadget ?

Nobbut a young imposter. 

[Bee]

That boat in the pics is 32'6" x 11'4", We have been all over the Severn, K&A, the GU up to Braunston and the river Wey and pretty much everywhere in the Southern wide waterways, some of it was dead easy, some of it was hard to the point of why are we bothering with this. The underwater shape is nothing like some of the wide beam vessels at present on the UK canal system and we draw less than many narrowboats and can get right in to the shallow edges where many narrow boats cannot. The point is that the design ('design' is used loosely), of many wide boats is unsuitable for shallow, tight, bendy, awkward and crowded waterways with tricky bridges. I would not want to see people spend a lot of money on something without realising that their boat might not be much fun to try and move.

[dmr]

The wide narrowboats with slab sided hulls and no tumblehome look to be "designed" for static living in a marina rather than extensive canal navigation.

 

I suspect builders thought "we already know how to build narrowboats so lets make them wider". I suspect a wide narrowboat is much easier to build than a Dutch barge style craft.

 

...................Dave

[Athy]

Off-topic, but what an eye-catching craft that is - a sort of steel version of the French pénichette which is roughly the same size. I assume the wheelhouse retracts or collapses in some way.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Athy