Beta Marine BF2803 Pulley wheel bolt coming loose.

[canalboat77]

I have a Beta Marine BF2803, and on the front it has a very heavy pulley wheel (might not be the correct term), powering two alternators. I believe because of the weight of the wheel, and the fact the alternators are pulling on one side, the central bolt holding it all together does come loose. In the past we have just glued the bolt in place and it’s lasted for about a year. I’m wondering if there is a better long term fix. The wheel itself looks like it weighs a lot. 
 

Thanks 

[Tracy D'arth]

Known Beta failure. I believe there is a modification, ask Beta. They changed many engines free of charge because of this, it wrecks the crankshaft. The pulley originally was a taper fit and some of the tapers were not correct.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Tracy D'arth

[jacko264]

When you say glued what did you use ?  You need proper locktite for bolts 

or can you drill a small hole though the head of the bolt and lock it with locking wire ?

[Phil.]

If this has already become loose, then it is likely that the damage has already been done to the point where you will not be able to maintain tightness to the nut. Beta do a locking plate which can be secured over the splined end of the shaft to hold the nut in place, provided your engine is not one that has had its shaft cutoff short. If you can find the VOC number on your engine, a phone call to Beta will help you know whether one of their fixes is possible in your circumstances. 

[canalboat77]

8 minutes ago, jacko264 said:

When you say glued what did you use ?  You need proper locktite for bolts 

or can you drill a small hole though the head of the bolt and lock it with locking wire ?

Yeah, we are using the correct locktite glue, I want to say it’s green in colour. 

1 minute ago, Phil. said:

If this has already become loose, then it is likely that the damage has already been done to the point where you will not be able to maintain tightness to the nut. Beta do a locking plate which can be secured over the splined end of the shaft to hold the nut in place, provided your engine is not one that has had its shaft cutoff short. If you can find the VOC number on your engine, a phone call to Beta will help you know whether one of their fixes is possible in your circumstances. 

Phil, do you know whereabouts this would be? Is it stamped on the engine somewhere? 

[jacko264]

Yes that’s the stuff but reading what others have posted you may be better following there advice
Graham 

[Phil.]

12 minutes ago, canalboat77 said:

Yeah, we are using the correct locktite glue, I want to say it’s green in colour. 

Phil, do you know whereabouts this would be? Is it stamped on the engine somewhere? 

It will usually be found on the plate on the top of engine, or failing that if you have the original manual it will include a sticker inside and it is recorded on this. 
 

I can probably gauge whether the locking plate would fit as I have one....when the nut is tight, how much of the splined shaft is visible from the leading edge of the nut.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Phil.

[Steve56]

1 hour ago, canalboat77 said:

I have a Beta Marine BF2803, and on the front it has a very heavy pulley wheel (might not be the correct term), powering two alternators. I believe because of the weight of the wheel, and the fact the alternators are pulling on one side, the central bolt holding it all together does come loose. In the past we have just glued the bolt in place and it’s lasted for about a year. I’m wondering if there is a better long term fix. The wheel itself looks like it weighs a lot. 
 

Thanks 

Many years ago Beta used to fit heavy cast pulleys to the front of there engines. This was one of the reasons for this type of failure. On newer engines these pulleys were made of aluminium to keep the weight down. The problem comes from the heavy weight combined with the cyclic irregularity when running at low speeds. I guess that this is quite an old engine as the 5 cylinder model has not been made for a good number of years. 

[matty40s]

2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Known Beta failure. I believe there is a modification, ask Beta. They changed many engines free of charge because of this, it wrecks the crankshaft. The pulley originally was a taper fit and some of the tapers were not correct.

There were quite a few Stowe Hill betas replaced or rebuilt because of this fault, most post 90's Stowe Hills had large alternators added to drive Genpacks.

Beta were very good at investigating and replacing or rebuilding as needed for original owners...and learning from the process....probably why Beta Marine are still going.

 

 

[Bobbybass]

I relocated one of my alternators to the opposite side so the belt tension was even...but it took a huge amount of fettling.

[johnmck]

I will never forget a Saturday evening in Chester, 2011.

Been out during the day and on getting back early evening, decided to give the batteries a boost and warm the water.

An almighty clatter and bang announced the freedom of our pulley. Luckily, being a cocooned engine, it was fetained within the casing. 

Luckily, we were still under warranty and it was fixed by Sunday morning.

So even the freewheeling/centrifugal pulleys had faults in their first incarnation with Beta. All credit to them though, the fix was quick.

Edited August 14, 2020 by johnmck
Fat finger.

[sharpness]

Its not the VOC number you need, its the WOC number, on my engine its on a plate/label on the rocker cover along with the serial number.

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, sharpness said:

Its not the VOC number you need, its the WOC number, on my engine its on a plate/label on the rocker cover along with the serial number.

Yep, Works Order Card I think. It's the "recipe" for that particular engine and all it's bits.

[canalboat77]

15 hours ago, Phil. said:

It will usually be found on the plate on the top of engine, or failing that if you have the original manual it will include a sticker inside and it is recorded on this. 
 

I can probably gauge whether the locking plate would fit as I have one....when the nut is tight, how much of the splined shaft is visible from the leading edge of the nut.

I've attached a picture. Fingers crossed this fix will fit. 

[Phil.]

1 hour ago, canalboat77 said:

I've attached a picture. Fingers crossed this fix will fit. 

That does not look suitable for the locking plate Beta provided for me.

[Tracy D'arth]

That is one with the end of the crankshaft cut off, its going to need a new crank I think. Most of the ones like this were changed I believe by Beta.

[canalboat77]

5 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

That is one with the end of the crankshaft cut off, its going to need a new crank I think. Most of the ones like this were changed I believe by Beta.

Thanks, I’m guessing that as the engine is so old, she won’t be under warranty for the free fix. 

[Tracy D'arth]

Just now, canalboat77 said:

Thanks, I’m guessing that as the engine is so old, she won’t be under warranty for the free fix. 

I would still have a go, its a known manufacturing defect, the consumer goods act has no time limits in this event. At least you could invite them to contribute.

[canalboat77]

5 hours ago, Phil. said:

That does not look suitable for the locking plate Beta provided for me.

I’ve not seen what the plate solution looks like, I wonder if I could get someone to fabricate something to keep that nut from coming loose once it has been tightened? 
 

[Bobbybass]

Just now, canalboat77 said:

I’ve not seen what the plate solution looks like, I wonder if I could get someone to fabricate something to keep that nut from coming loose once it has been tightened? 
 

It's not just the nut comes lose. The pulley starts to waggle and cuts a shoulder into the crank. The nut then comes loose. 

 

Even if you welded the nut ( which Adrian at Beta told me they had tried ) the pulley will still waggle at some point. It then accelerates.

[Steve56]

2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I would still have a go, its a known manufacturing defect, the consumer goods act has no time limits in this event. At least you could invite them to contribute.

Don't think you'd have much of a chance. That 5 cylinder engine hasn't been sold by Beta for a great number of years. No longer made so who knows what the spares availability is.

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, canalboat77 said:

I’ve not seen what the plate solution looks like, I wonder if I could get someone to fabricate something to keep that nut from coming loose once it has been tightened? 
 

Its too late once it has come loose, the bolt alone will not hold it for long. The end of the shaft and the pulley inner bore will be damaged and will not lock together properly.  Things will only get worse, sorry.

[Bobbybass]

1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Its too late once it has come loose, the bolt alone will not hold it for long. The end of the shaft and the pulley inner bore will be damaged and will not lock together properly.  Things will only get worse, sorry.

Exactly as I posted above.

Beta tried welding the nut without success.

[Tracy D'arth]

16 minutes ago, canalboat77 said:

I’ve not seen what the plate solution looks like, I wonder if I could get someone to fabricate something to keep that nut from coming loose once it has been tightened? 
 

Its too late once it has come loose, the bolt alone will not hold it for long. The end of the shaft and the pulley inner bore will be damaged and will not lock together properly.  Things will only get worse, sorry.

 

 

 

 

I would still ask, they may have come up with a rework by now

 

 

 

[OldGoat]

29 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Its too late once it has come loose, the bolt alone will not hold it for long. The end of the shaft and the pulley inner bore will be damaged and will not lock together properly.  Things will only get worse, sorry.

 

 

 

 

I would still ask, they may have come up with a rework by now

 

 

 

Although it was a design fault - part of the problem is that folks run the engine at tickover speeds - which introduces 'chatter'  and exacerbates the problem.

It's worth talking to Beta 'cos they're great folks and you may come to a compromise - but that might mean a different engine.

The later fix for smaller engines (up to 2903) was what I call 'the washing machine fix' - only because the pulley arrangement was made by Electrolux. It has the disadvantage (or did) that there were two pulleys and the smaller one was too small a diameter to drive a second alternator to get the same output from two. Well it didn't for me...