517878 Amethyst

[Ferd]

Was it a fender to fender nudge as he just drifted in to you.  Or was it a metal on metal glance of e.g. starboard bow side against port stern side. which meant he would have carried on alongside after the impact until he could stop ?etc etc

[WotEver]

12 minutes ago, jamesinyk said:

Pulled over into a line of moored boats?

How would you do that?  Far more sensible to pull up alongside a moored boat, surely?

[tree monkey]

12 minutes ago, jamesinyk said:

Pulled over into a line of moored boats?

Fair play to you I must say, although I do think you should have pulled over but that aside most people storm off in a strop when they have been faced with the wrath of the forum

 

[Ferd]

12 minutes ago, Ferd said:

Was it a fender to fender nudge as he just drifted in to you.  Or was it a metal on metal glance of e.g. starboard bow side against port stern side. which meant he would have carried on alongside after the impact until he could stop ?etc etc

Also I wonder why the mouthy wife didn't come up to her bow while hubby was at the tiller and communicate with you.

[jamesinyk]

19 minutes ago, Ferd said:

Was it a fender to fender nudge as he just drifted in to you.  Or was it a metal on metal glance of e.g. starboard bow side against port stern side. which meant he would have carried on alongside after the impact until he could stop ?etc etc

Metal on metal followed by scraping alongside with no obvious attempt to slow down. 

[nicknorman]

27 minutes ago, jamesinyk said:

You’re seriously defending someone who rammed me whilst I was passing a line of other boats? Wow. 

I am saying that the outcome was the consequence of your actions. You were blocking the navigation by going slowly, and then crawling along the last bit because there were boats ahead at the lock and you think you are too important to get there and help people through. You had no regard for the difficulties that you were creating for the boat behind.

 

You are now saying there was a line of other boats but it is clear from google maps that there are no permanent moorings there. There might have been a few boats moored near the lock but there clearly wasn’t a solid line of moored boats from bridge 6 to the lock. And you certainly can’t see the lock until much, much closer than bridge 6. You are now making it up in order to justify your actions. But I appreciate that selfish people can’t accept they are selfish and so i know I am wasting my breath.

2 minutes ago, jamesinyk said:

Metal on metal followed by scraping alongside with no obvious attempt to slow down. 

So not really ramming then.

[jamesinyk]

5 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I am saying that the outcome was the consequence of your actions. You were blocking the navigation by going slowly, and then crawling along the last bit because there were boats ahead at the lock and you think you are too important to get there and help people through. You had no regard for the difficulties that you were creating for the boat behind.

 

You are now saying there was a line of other boats but it is clear from google maps that there are no permanent moorings there. There might have been a few boats moored near the lock but there clearly wasn’t a solid line of moored boats from bridge 6 to the lock. And you certainly can’t see the lock until much, much closer than bridge 6. You are now making it up in order to justify your actions. But I appreciate that selfish people can’t accept they are selfish and so i know I am wasting my breath.

So not really ramming then.

That’s your perspective which you are entitled to. 

[Jerra]

24 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I am saying that the outcome was the consequence of your actions. You were blocking the navigation by going slowly, and then crawling along the last bit because there were boats ahead at the lock and you think you are too important to get there and help people through. You had no regard for the difficulties that you were creating for the boat behind.

Just out of interest, if you are driving along a road beside parked cars and there isn't easy space for overtaking do you expect the car behind to scrape alongside yours in trying to pass?

 

If not why should it be any different on a boat?

[nicknorman]

7 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Just out of interest, if you are driving along a road beside parked cars and there isn't easy space for overtaking do you expect the car behind to scrape alongside yours in trying to pass?

 

If not why should it be any different on a boat?

No. Because scraping past a car will damage it, scraping past a boat only damages the ego of the person who thought they were in charge of how fast everyone else may go.

 

Anyway you are continuing to paint a false picture. There was not a line of moored boats all the way from bridge 6. You know it, I know it, everyone else knows it. So why are you making it up? Perhaps you believe that if you repeat something often enough it will become true? Ok I agree it does seem to work for Donald Trump. Ultimately you are just kidding yourself. “So sad” ...(in the voice of DT).

Edited August 14, 2020 by nicknorman

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

There was not a line of moored boats all the way from bridge 6.

I don't think it has either been said or implied that such a line of boats exists.   As I have read the thread the OP was proceeding over that streatch and knowing there were at least 4 boats in a queue ahead he was easing of speed and passing boats at the time of the incident.

 

Not the same as saying there was a constant line of boats all the way.

[jamesinyk]

2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

No. Because scraping past a car will damage it, scraping past a boat only damages the ego of the person who thought they were in charge of how fast everyone else may go.

 

Anyway you are continuing to paint a false picture. There was not a line of moored boats all the way from bridge 6. You know it, I know it, everyone else knows it. So why are you making it up? Perhaps you believe that if you repeat something often enough it will become true? Ok I agree it does seem to work for Donald Trump. Ultimately you are just kidding yourself. “So sad” ...(in the voice of DT).

Where did I say there was a line if boats from bridge 6? I said the other boat was behind us from around bridge 6, following, getting closer until the area on the map I marked. There were a number of moored  boats facing each direction then a boat length gap, then 4 boats queuing for the lock. 
 

If the etiquette is to arrive at the queue as quickly as possible then help out then I am clearly in the wrong for pootling along. However the response is not to hit someone and yell at them. 
 

Incidentally, groups of unrelated people gathering together is frowned upon right now.

2 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I don't think it has either been said or implied that such a line of boats exists.   As I have read the thread the OP was proceeding over that streatch and knowing there were at least 4 boats in a queue ahead he was easing of speed and passing boats at the time of the incident.

 

Not the same as saying there was a constant line of boats all the way.

Thank you. 

[nicknorman]

1 minute ago, Jerra said:

I don't think it has either been said or implied that such a line of boats exists.   As I have read the thread the OP was proceeding over that streatch and knowing there were at least 4 boats in a queue ahead he was easing of speed and passing boats at the time of the incident.

 

Not the same as saying there was a constant line of boats all the way.

He cannot have known there were 4 boats queueing at the next lock until it was in sight. That was close to the lock and way, way after bridge 6. He also said that the boat behind was up his chuff since bridge 6. He cited the excuse that there were moored boats as the reason he could not have allowed the boat behind to overtake. So either there was a line of moored boats all the way from bridge 6 (not true) or he could easily have allowed the boat to overtake right up until the last bit when perhaps there were a few moored boats.

 

His story is inconsistent and thus I am of the opinion that he is distorting or falsifying the facts to explain away his behaviour. And he is not very good at it!

 

It seems to me that what actually happened was that he was going pretty slowly, a boat caught him up at bridge 6, he was aware of it but declined to allow it to pass, causing frustration to the boat behind. On getting the lock in sight (last couple of hundred yards) he slowed right down to nearly stationary causing the boater behind to boil over in frustration. If the boat in front is virtually stationary and thus blocking the navigation for a prolonged period, I think it is reasonable for the boat behind to go past.

 

But as I said, all this would have been avoided if he had let the boat overtake just after bridge 6, but it seems he is one of these people (probably short and with a tiny limp tadger) who thinks that being courteous is a sign of weakness.

[Rickent]

1 hour ago, jamesinyk said:

Pulled over into a line of moored boats?

It doesn't matter how right you are and how wrong the other boater was you are flogging a dead horse on here trying to get your point across,  you will get snide and nasty remarks whatever you say. This is the reason new members leave as quickly as they arrive, sad really.

[nicknorman]

8 minutes ago, jamesinyk said:

Incidentally, groups of unrelated people gathering together is frowned upon right now.

Thank you. 

Ah more excuses! You will find that a lock is more than 2 metres wide, and a lot more than 2 metres long.

[haggis]

1 minute ago, jamesinyk said:

 

Incidentally, groups of unrelated people gathering together is frowned upon right now.

Thank you. 

Indeed,  but there is lots of space round a lock to keep social distancing.

When canal boating we should realise that  some folk want to creep along in their carpet slippers and some like to make progress and there is nothing wrong with either but it makes for a much happier life if we don't impose our preferred speed of travel on others. If you are dawdling along and someone indicates that they would like to go past, either sounding their horn or having someone on their bows  to attract your attention you should acknowledge the request and when the next suitable pace for an overtake appears, pull in and let them past. Everyone is then happy as you can continue to dawdle and they can progress a bit quicker.  

Is there not a possibility that the boat behind may have assumed from your speed that you were planning to moor and they, planning to go up the lock, moved to go past you?

 

haggis

[Rickent]

3 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

 

 

It seems to me that what actually happened was that he was going pretty slowly, a boat caught him up at bridge 6, he was aware of it but declined to allow it to pass, causing frustration to the boat behind. On getting the lock in sight (last couple of hundred yards) he slowed right down to nearly stationary causing the boater behind to boil over in frustration. If the boat in front is virtually stationary and thus blocking the navigation for a prolonged period, I think it is reasonable for the boat behind to go past.

 

But as I said, all this would have been avoided if he had let the boat overtake just after bridge 6, but it seems he is one of these people (probably short and with a tiny limp tadger) who thinks that being courteous is a sign of weakness.

How can you possibly say what happened,  did you witness this? No of course you didn't,  so you are saying it's fine to ram somebody from behind in order to get to a lock with four boats waiting first.

And the last statement is disgraceful. 

[system 4-50]

 

 

   2 hours ago,  jamesinyk said: 

We’ll help if is needed but also respect others who wish to do it themselves. It’s not a race to see how quickly we can get all the boats through. 

“Oooh mustn’t rush”... “it’s not a race”... this sort of attitude really pisses me off. You do not get to decide about whether other people have an agenda / need to get somewhere at a specific time. You have no idea about other people’s issues, and nor do you care it seems. You do not get to decide how fast everyone else must go at. Or if you do, you are likely to get rammed. The only pity is that it wasn’t harder. If you want to enjoy a peaceful time on the canals you need to learn that it is not all about you.

 

This is classic NN in rant mode.  He didn't say "you have to go slow".  All he said was "it is not a race".  It is not a race.  I like to go quickly but it is not the be all and end all.  We don't expect all taking part to be competetive and raring to go.  This indignation is willful misreading of the normal ambiguities of typing on the 'net.  What is important is that everybody stays calm and avoids losing control of not the boat but themselves.

[jamesinyk]

5 minutes ago, Rickent said:

It doesn't matter how right you are and how wrong the other boater was you are flogging a dead horse on here trying to get your point across,  you will get snide and nasty remarks whatever you say. This is the reason new members leave as quickly as they arrive, sad really.

Indeed, it’s really quite amusing. 

[Jerra]

6 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

He cannot have known there were 4 boats queueing at the next lock until it was in sight.

You mean when you cruise you don't have an idea of how many boats are in front of you based on such things as how many passed when you were tied up, glimpses of different colour at bends comments from boats going the other way etc.  I certainly do.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, haggis said:

Indeed,  but there is lots of space round a lock to keep social distancing.

When canal boating we should realise that  some folk want to creep along in their carpet slippers and some like to make progress and there is nothing wrong with either but it makes for a much happier life if we don't impose our preferred speed of travel on others. If you are dawdling along and someone indicates that they would like to go past, either sounding their horn or having someone on their bows  to attract your attention you should acknowledge the request and when the next suitable pace for an overtake appears, pull in and let them past. Everyone is then happy as you can continue to dawdle and they can progress a bit quicker.  

Is there not a possibility that the boat behind may have assumed from your speed that you were planning to moor and they, planning to go up the lock, moved to go past you?

 

haggis

Sadly we will likely never get the other boaters version of events.

 

Rarely is one side of a story the entire picture in my experience. Especially in road/canal/river rage incidents.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by The Happy Nomad

[jamesinyk]

9 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

But as I said, all this would have been avoided if he had let the boat overtake just after bridge 6, but it seems he is one of these people (probably short and with a tiny limp tadger) who thinks that being courteous is a sign of weakness.

And there we have it, resorting to personal abuse within 4 pages. Well done, you get the prize. ?

 

What a community this is! 

[Guest]

Just now, jamesinyk said:

And there we have it, resorting to personal abuse within 4 pages. Well done, you get the prize. ?

 

What a community this is! 

I read it as a joke - and quite a funny one too.

[Naughty Cal]

9 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Sadly we will likely never get the other boaters version of events.

 

Rarely is one side of a story the entire picture in my experience. Especially in road/canal/river rage incidents.

 

 

There are invariably always three version of a story, one for each party and then the truth.

[Iain_S]

5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

(snip)

The RYA 'Day Skipper' or 'Powerboat Level 1' (1-day course), 'Power Boat level 2 (2-day course) or even the ICC are all very simple and don't takes weeks of 'schooling'

The 'Inland' certificates are even simpler & are 'watered down' with obviously no coverage of things like Tides, Navigation etc.

I wouldn't describe the Inland Waterways Helmsman Certificate as "watered down". True, no coverage of tides, but locks are included and a lot more close quarters handling. It's about the same standard as Power Boat Level 2, but a different syllabus.

5 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

It was much better and quieter when we hoisted flag signals, all this tooting disturbs my daydreaming when I am steering.

Perfectly OK to use the headlamp instead of the horn, but neither lamp nor flags are much use from behind

[Slim]

6 minutes ago, jamesinyk said:

And there we have it, resorting to personal abuse within 4 pages. Well done, you get the prize. ?

 

What a community this is! 

Clearly you joined this forum expecting (hoping) for a re-run of last years Thames incident. My read of all you've posted is that you crept along (for your own reasons ) with  little or no consideration for the boat behind (rather like 60mph in the middle lane of a motorway). You lost the moral high ground when you failed to allow him to pass. That may well have been long before the actual incident.