Not Hozelock

[system 4-50]

There are other threads describing the use of Hozelock stuff to fill water tanks, but has anybody used any sort of larger diameter eg 19mm tubing successfully? I would like try it to reduce the 80 minute fill time of my tanks.  Obviously the pressure at the tap end is a constant, but would a larger diameter pipe reduce the flow of my ~ 25M piping less than my current Hozelock stuff?

[MoominPapa]

4 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

There are other threads describing the use of Hozelock stuff to fill water tanks, but has anybody used any sort of larger diameter eg 19mm tubing successfully? I would like try it to reduce the 80 minute fill time of my tanks.  Obviously the pressure at the tap end is a constant, but would a larger diameter pipe reduce the flow of my ~ 25M piping less than my current Hozelock stuff?

It depends. The pressure at the tap end is not constant, it will fall as the flow rate increases. Increasing the diameter of the hose can only increase the flow rate, but how much it increases depends on the pressure in the main, and where between the main and the end of the hose the pressure drop is occuring.

 

MP.

[nicknorman]

I think the limiting factor will be the narrower 15mm pipe leading to the tap. Weakest link in the chain etc.

 

i do recall that on the Thames they tend to have larger diameter taps, pipes and hoses and the fill rate is fantastic, but I don’t think you can replicate that without the appropriate infrastructure (ie the Pipework leading to the tap etc.

[ditchcrawler]

But the bore of a hose lock is quite small and those expanding hoses rely on presser differential to keep them extended. 

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

I think the limiting factor will be the narrower 15mm pipe leading to the tap. Weakest link in the chain etc.

 

i do recall that on the Thames they tend to have larger diameter taps, pipes and hoses and the fill rate is fantastic, but I don’t think you can replicate that without the appropriate infrastructure (ie the Pipework leading to the tap etc.

On the Thames someone decided that Chubb fire hoses would be handy and yes they do fill fast but have been known to burst polyprop and stainless steel tanks because the hose is a similar size to the typical filler and the typical vent pipe is not big enough to deal with the air displacement.

 

So you stick the hose in the filler, go and have a cup of tea etc meanwhile the tank is being inflated. 

 

[pearley]

9 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

But the bore of a hose lock is quite small and those expanding hoses rely on presser differential to keep them extended. 

Bought one of those. First fill using it was Fradley. Put it in the bin!

[Alan de Enfield]

9 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

But the bore of a hose lock is quite small and those expanding hoses rely on presser differential to keep them extended. 

 

18 minutes ago, pearley said:

Bought one of those. First fill using it was Fradley. Put it in the bin!

 

Really impressed with ours, had one for many many years (since they first came out on 'selling TV channels'), the last one lasted for about 6 years before the connector to the tap broke off a 'pip' inside it and I couldn't find a replacement end piece.

Bought a new one last week - 100 foot with all brass fittings at just over £20 on Amazon and next day delivery.

 

I've made up a 'probe' to fit into the water tank so the end doesn't jump out and the stop-valve ensures no water squirting where it shouldn't be.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scholar Gypsy]

I have a gauge as part of my probe - you can just see the valve near the tank filler - but I am now wondering how much is slows up the filling process...

[Alan de Enfield]

25 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I have a gauge as part of my probe - you can just see the valve near the tank filler - but I am now wondering how much is slows up the filling process...

 

That's very clever, nice gadget,  but I'd rather Know when the tank is approaching 'full' rather than just how many litres I was putting in. I have a gauge on the water tank so just 'fill' until 'full'

[Mike Todd]

11 hours ago, nicknorman said:

I think the limiting factor will be the narrower 15mm pipe leading to the tap. Weakest link in the chain etc.

 

i do recall that on the Thames they tend to have larger diameter taps, pipes and hoses and the fill rate is fantastic, but I don’t think you can replicate that without the appropriate infrastructure (ie the Pipework leading to the tap etc.

I suspect that the tap itself might be the limiter.

[system 4-50]

Experiment just done at home:

Filled 2 gall bucket

from household tap: 82 secs

from household tap with 3/4" to Hozelock adapter fitted: 82 secs

from household tap with 3/4" to Hozelock adapter and ~30M Hozelock piping: 100 secs

 

[Onionman]

I use hoses each and every day in my work. Hard-won knowledge to follow.

 

Going to a wider bore will prevent the width of the hose being the bottleneck in the system. If the tap can manage it you'll be better off. If not, you certainly won't be worse off.

 

You'll obtain a much higher flow rate from a shorter hose than a long one (for proof, imagine a 2 mile hose with a tap at one end; you'd be lucky to get water out of it). So, you want as short a hose as you can get away with. However, as any fule kno, you can end up a real distance from a water point if Dozy Derek has moored alongside it and gone to the pub. You need a short one and a long one (and possibly an intermediate one if you're getting all nerdy about it). You now have the problem of connectors.

 

Hozelock (and similar) fittings have a bore smaller than the hose and slow flow down significantly. The best connectors I know for flow are geka hose connectors: their design (seals on the outside) means they pretty much don't impede flow. They aren't terribly cheap but they do last, plus they don't have male and female bits: they just twist lock to one another.

 

https://www.waterirrigation.co.uk/catalog/product/view/_ignore_category/1/id/14515/s/geka-hose-tail-19mm/

 

So, an ideal solution would be a short length of 19mm hose with tap connector at one end, geka on the other. A length to cover mooring close to the tap, a longer one and an even longer one (or just one long one) for more difficult moorings, each with a geka at either end. Then a short bit to go into your tank with a geka just at one end. Choose the shortest combination to cover the distance required.

 

 

 

Or ...   ...    ...    ...   use a 1/2" hose with Hozelock fittings, put the kettle on and watch the clouds with a nice cup of tea in hand for ten minutes while your tank fills.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Onionman

[ditchcrawler]

45 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Experiment just done at home:

Filled 2 gall bucket

from household tap: 82 secs

from household tap with 3/4" to Hozelock adapter fitted: 82 secs

from household tap with 3/4" to Hozelock adapter and ~30M Hozelock piping: 100 secs

 

So a fatter hose would help

 

[Naughty Cal]

The water hoses on the Broads are all a much bigger bore than the usual hose lock stuff. It really doesn't take long to fill our tank with those.

7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Really impressed with ours, had one for many many years (since they first came out on 'selling TV channels'), the last one lasted for about 6 years before the connector to the tap broke off a 'pip' inside it and I couldn't find a replacement end piece.

Bought a new one last week - 100 foot with all brass fittings at just over £20 on Amazon and next day delivery.

 

I've made up a 'probe' to fit into the water tank so the end doesn't jump out and the stop-valve ensures no water squirting where it shouldn't be.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have one of those stupid roll flat hoses on a reel. It is useless and splits all the time. The only reason we persevere with them is because they take up so little room on the boat when we have limited storage.

 

We have just had to buy a replacement one. We have bought a mini Hose Lock reel for the motorhome, we are going to see if that will fit in the anchor locker and use that instead.

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

The water hoses on the Broads are all a much bigger bore than the usual hose lock stuff. It really doesn't take long to fill our tank with those.

We have one of those stupid roll flat hoses on a reel. It is useless and splits all the time. The only reason we persevere with them is because they take up so little room on the boat when we have limited storage.

 

We have just had to buy a replacement one. We have bought a mini Hose Lock reel for the motorhome, we are going to see if that will fit in the anchor locker and use that instead.

The 'magic-hose' fits into a small bag about 12" high x 9" diameter.

[system 4-50]

58 minutes ago, Onionman said:

Or ...   ...    ...    ...   use a 1/2" hose with Hozelock fittings, put the kettle on and watch the clouds with a nice cup of tea in hand for 80 minutes while your tank fills.

corrected that for you.

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

So a fatter hose would help

 

That's not evidence to support that conclusion.

[ditchcrawler]

22 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

That's not evidence to support that conclusion.

True, he didn't try a fatter hose, just showed that it took almost 25% flowing through the hose he had

[Jon57]

1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

The water hoses on the Broads are all a much bigger bore than the usual hose lock stuff. It really doesn't take long to fill our tank with those.

We have one of those stupid roll flat hoses on a reel. It is useless and splits all the time. The only reason we persevere with them is because they take up so little room on the boat when we have limited storage.

 

We have just had to buy a replacement one. We have bought a mini Hose Lock reel for the motorhome, we are going to see if that will fit in the anchor locker and use that instead.

You need a yo-yo hose. Best extending hose. Google it. Sorry don’t know how to post a link.

[Machpoint005]

7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That's very clever, nice gadget,  but I'd rather Know when the tank is approaching 'full' rather than just how many litres I was putting in. I have a gauge on the water tank so just 'fill' until 'full'

 

If water comes out of the gas locker drain holes. my tank is full.

 

If it doesn't, it isn't.

 

 

[Onionman]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

So a fatter hose would help

 

 

No, it merely shows hose slows flows.

[Mike Todd]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

True, he didn't try a fatter hose, just showed that it took almost 25% flowing through the hose he had

What we don't know from that data is whether the hose or the tap is the restriction. A hose fatter than the narrowest part of the tap internals will not help.

[system 4-50]

2 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

What we don't know from that data is whether the hose or the tap is the restriction. A hose fatter than the narrowest part of the tap internals will not help.

I don't understand any part of your comment.

[ditchcrawler]

8 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

What we don't know from that data is whether the hose or the tap is the restriction. A hose fatter than the narrowest part of the tap internals will not help.

Well the time increased by 25% after a hose was fitted to the hozelock fitting unless I am barking up the wrong tree yet again

Edited July 29, 2020 by ditchcrawler

[mark99]

If all else remains constant:

 

Double diameter = 4 times flow.

 

Double length of hose = double pressure drop.

 

Double pressure drop = 1/2 flow.

 

2 gins = 2 pints.

 

Trouble is one affects the other.

 

Increasing hose diameter is the obvs choice if the tap/source pressure is man enough.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by mark99