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Barrus Shire - Starter fuse


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Has anyone had a problem with their starter relay fuse blowing? We have a Barrus Shire 40 and last year the 15A fuse for the starter relay would randomly blow, preventing the starter from turning. Its been fine for most of this year until yesterday when it happened once more and again today. According to the wiring diagram its called the Engine Start Control System fuse. It may well be similar on other engines.

I've got a pot of spare fuses but it would be nice to know if this has happened to anyone before and what they did about it.

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5 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

We have a Barrus engine but have not experienced this issue. Eeyore (spellcheck) of this parish has helped me no end in the past.

I’ll have a look at the diagrams when I’m home from the boat later today. First thought is an intermittent, slightly “sticky” starter solenoid. The use of a relay is common enough, as the ignition switch is on the small side; but I don’t know of anyone else putting a fuse in the solenoid feed.

Edited by Eeyore
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This is our diagram. There is a similar diagram for the 14-40 which has a 25A fuse where our 15A one is. 

 

I can change the fuse and engine starts fine, then after stopping the engine it wont re-start and the fuse is blown? So possibly the relay is sticking, maybe as simple as that?

fuse.png

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Just now, Sir Nibble said:

Does the starter always leap into action promptly or does it sometimes just click?

Always turns over and starts, never sluggish or slow. If it was clicking i would go for the battery being low or connection on the starter or solenoid

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19 hours ago, Ouse on Board? said:

Has anyone had a problem with their starter relay fuse blowing? We have a Barrus Shire 40 and last year the 15A fuse for the starter relay would randomly blow, preventing the starter from turning. Its been fine for most of this year until yesterday when it happened once more and again today. According to the wiring diagram its called the Engine Start Control System fuse. It may well be similar on other engines.

I've got a pot of spare fuses but it would be nice to know if this has happened to anyone before and what they did about it.

I would suspect a faulty relay or solenoid.  My Barrus manual (issue 6) shows a 25 amp fuse.  It's a bog standard car relay obtainable from any motor factor or even Halfords.

Edited by Flyboy
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2 hours ago, Ouse on Board? said:

Always turns over and starts, never sluggish or slow. If it was clicking i would go for the battery being low or connection on the starter or solenoid

An additional thought I had was maybe the relay pins or socket have some corrosion causing a high resistance to the solenoid. I suggest you pull out the relay and check this.  A squirt of switch cleaner or WD40 may do the trick. The relays are engine mounted so are vunerable to damp in the engine bay. At the same time you could separate the harness plug and socket and do the same, As the feed to the relay is via the ignition switch.

None of this explains the fuse blowing which would point more towards the solenoid.

Edited by Flyboy
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I’m going to stay with my original suggestion. By all means do a bit of maintenance around cleaning connections and maybe changing the relay on a preventative maintenance basis; but none of these faulty things will increase current flow.

Get your very expensive (used to be Hitachi) starter in for a service; and ask them to pay special attention to the solenoid, although I’d just have a new one fitted.

Lumpy water boaters are generally advised in to have electrical machines serviced annually, flat water boaters usually wait for them to break. Planned preventative maintenance is much more than just oil and filters.

Edited by Eeyore
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Do not be tempted into fitting a larger fuse. According to the diagram you posted the wiring is rated at 14 amps and protected by a 15 amp fuse!

The fuse is doing its job in diagnosing a faulty solenoid.

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19 minutes ago, Eeyore said:

Do not be tempted into fitting a larger fuse. According to the diagram you posted the wiring is rated at 14 amps and protected by a 15 amp fuse!

The fuse is doing its job in diagnosing a faulty solenoid.

The fuse the OP has highlighted appears to be a 25 amp in 14 amp wiring.

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The fuse the OP has highlighted appears to be a 25 amp in 14 amp wiring.

I'm reckoning that the diagram with the 25A fuse is older and has been replaced with the 15A suitable for the wiring...

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Just now, Ouse on Board? said:

I'm reckoning that the diagram with the 25A fuse is older and has been replaced with the 15A suitable for the wiring...

Could that be why it is blowing ?

The circuit is designed as (say) 20 amps and someone has put a 15 amp into the fuse holder ?

 

There are many ways to 'rate' the current carrying capacity of a wire, including temperature, bundling, in fee air or conduit, insulation type / thickness etc.

 

The wiring rating could easily be 25 amps under some conditions, but someone has chosen the rating for 'other' conditions.

Without knowing the actual cross sectional area or strand number and sizes of the copper its all going to be guess work.

 

I'd again suggest that rather than some strange blokes trying to be helpful by giving 'diagnosis by internet' ask the question of Barrus "has the fuse rating changed since the manual was printed" (and wait the 7 days for an answer)

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Just now, Ouse on Board? said:

I'm reckoning that the diagram with the 25A fuse is older and has been replaced with the 15A suitable for the wiring...

Your diagram is 02 series.  My diagram is 06 series which shows 25amp fuse and a 14amp conductor.  Strange, only Barrus can answer that one.

13 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

15A is low for a starter solenoid. If you have a clamp DC ammeter quickly measure the current passing the fuse  when the solenoid is powered up with a 25A fuse in place.

Should the fuse be slow blow type?

My Barrus 45 came with normal quick blow car blade fuses.

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The solenoid is likely to be energised through the fuse and relay to pull in, with a maintain current from the starter motor contacts whilst the motor is turning, this is quite normal. So it could be that the maintain winding in the solenoid is open circuit  and the solenoid is relying on the feed from the relay/fuse.

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1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The solenoid is likely to be energised through the fuse and relay to pull in, with a maintain current from the starter motor contacts whilst the motor is turning, this is quite normal. So it could be that the maintain winding in the solenoid is open circuit  and the solenoid is relying on the feed from the relay/fuse.

Yes that would make sense. It has to be something causing the fuse to blow while the engine is operating. Ive got a feeling the solenoid and starter are one assembly....£££

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36 minutes ago, Ouse on Board? said:

Yes that would make sense. It has to be something causing the fuse to blow while the engine is operating. Ive got a feeling the solenoid and starter are one assembly....£££

The solenoid fits on the starter motor with 2 bolts. I doubt if Barrus would supply it separately though,  Your core engine is a Yanmar TNE 88 or TNV 88,  both have the same starter motor and is common across most of the Barrus engines.

This company may be able to help.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/171508472561?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=171508472561&targetid=909953938039&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1007139&poi=&campaignid=10199419363&mkgroupid=101401896705&rlsatarget=pla-909953938039&abcId=1145984&merchantid=101716896&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvt2J4ajr6gIV2-vtCh1JJQ0QEAQYCiABEgJdT_D_BwE

Edited by Flyboy
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1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The solenoid is likely to be energised through the fuse and relay to pull in, with a maintain current from the starter motor contacts whilst the motor is turning, this is quite normal. So it could be that the maintain winding in the solenoid is open circuit  and the solenoid is relying on the feed from the relay/fuse.

Unless the Yanmar solenoid is wired in some weird way that can't happen. The pull in winding earths through the motor so as the solenoid contact close you get 12V+ on both sides of the solenoid so it turns off.

 

If the fuse blows while the starter is operating then I would suspect a partially shorted hold in coil but without seeing the wiring diagram I am not sure the fuse is not for all the engine electrics and if so and it blows at random times when the engine is running I would suspect an intermittent short almost anywhere but the dreaded multi-plug may be a good place to start looking. If it really is a fuse for energisation of the relay on the motor then this is rubbish. If the fuse is for the energisation of a remote starter rely/solenoid then it makes little sense.

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Unless the Yanmar solenoid is wired in some weird way that can't happen. The pull in winding earths through the motor so as the solenoid contact close you get 12V+ on both sides of the solenoid so it turns off.

 

If the fuse blows while the starter is operating then I would suspect a partially shorted hold in coil but without seeing the wiring diagram I am not sure the fuse is not for all the engine electrics and if so and it blows at random times when the engine is running I would suspect an intermittent short almost anywhere but the dreaded multi-plug may be a good place to start looking. If it really is a fuse for energisation of the relay on the motor then this is rubbish. If the fuse is for the energisation of a remote starter rely/solenoid then it makes little sense.

 

 

From the wiring diagram in post 14 it shows the fuse only feeding the solenoid coil. The solenoid is looking like the most likely culprit.

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18 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

From the wiring diagram in post 14 it shows the fuse only feeding the solenoid coil. The solenoid is looking like the most likely culprit.

But, would it not be worth insering the specified fuse (25a) rather than the 15a that has been put in at some time for some unknown reason.

If the fault goes away with the 25a fuse it could be a much simpler and cheaper fix that buying a new solenoid or starter motor.

 

If it still fails then by all means investigate further.

 

Just seems to me to be a logical testing progression.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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