Tony ralph Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 Hi boaters I'm replacing my 12v toilet fan.. received my replacement fan it's come with two red lives only not live and negative. I see it's Obviously not compatible any advice can I reconfigure some how any advice welcome Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy D'arth Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 Its probably a pulse magnet motor, try it. It may run the wrong way unless you reverse the connections. Technology moves on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, Tony ralph said: Hi boaters I'm replacing my 12v toilet fan.. received my replacement fan it's come with two red lives only not live and negative. I see it's Obviously not compatible any advice can I reconfigure some how any advice welcome Thank you Have to got a link to the item, the seller or any technical details ? Was it sold as a boat ventilation fan ? There are a couple of possibilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony ralph Posted July 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Primeline-PEFLVF-Voltage-Extractor-Manrose/dp/B009CC8PM2 This is the link to the fan do I need a transformer with it as I'm 12 v anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tony ralph said: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Primeline-PEFLVF-Voltage-Extractor-Manrose/dp/B009CC8PM2 This is the link to the fan do I need a transformer with it as I'm 12 v anyway The supplier states that these fans are 12v AC NOT 12v DC so they cannot be run off a boat battery Extractor Fan LOW VOLTAGE model. 12V AC 20VA Power consumption 4" Exhaust. 85m3 per hour extract rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tony ralph said: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Primeline-PEFLVF-Voltage-Extractor-Manrose/dp/B009CC8PM2 This is the link to the fan do I need a transformer with it as I'm 12 v anyway It is a 12V AC fan, not DC. Designed to work via a transformer from mains AC voltages, but with no rectification. Can't be easily made to work with 12V DC. It may just sit there till the magic smoke escapes if connected up. Not an easy thing to make work and a lot cheaper to send it back and get something else that is 12V DC. The motor design on this needs a 50Hz AC source to work. If you have an inverter on board, then you could get a 240V to 12V AC transforrmer and run it that way, similar to how it would be installed in a house bathroom. Jen Edited July 25, 2020 by Jen-in-Wellies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 23 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said: It is a 12V AC fan, not DC. Designed to work via a transformer from mains AC voltages, but with no rectification. Can't be easily made to work with 12V DC. It may just sit there till the magic smoke escapes if connected up. Not an easy thing to make work and a lot cheaper to send it back and get something else that is 12V DC. The motor design on this needs a 50Hz AC source to work. If you have an inverter on board, then you could get a 240V to 12V AC transforrmer and run it that way, similar to how it would be installed in a house bathroom. Jen But a very inefficient way (taking a 12v battery, inverting it 230v AC, transforming it down to 12v AC) with losses at every stage, and having to buy a 12v transformer as well. It would be cheaper to throw it away and buy the correct one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGoat Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: But a very inefficient way (taking a 12v battery, inverting it 230v AC, transforming it down to 12v AC) with losses at every stage, and having to buy a 12v transformer as well. It would be cheaper to throw it away and buy the correct one. I second that Wharrabout geting a 12V vibrator (sometimes used in WWII radio power supplies.....) Perhaps more sensibly and if the OP doesn't mind tinkering around (assuming the AC fan has alreadt been purchased), then 12V DC computer fans can be had from Ebay Edited July 25, 2020 by OldGoat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 6 minutes ago, OldGoat said: I second that Wharrabout geting a 12V vibrator (sometimes used in WWII radio power supplies.....) I'm led to believe there is a very efficient model called "The Rabbit" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onewheeler Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 I won't be drawn... Think I might have one of those in my box of very old electricals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy D'arth Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 I thought of that and rejected it as he said he had bought a new one, never thought of someone buying a house fan for a boat. Sorrrrrry. I must get out more.............. TD' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 Just now, Tracy D'arth said: I thought of that and rejected it as he said he had bought a new one, never thought of someone buying a house fan for a boat. Sorrrrrry. I must get out more.............. TD' The problem is that new-to-boaters think of them as a 'floating house' and don't realise the differences - there is another thread running where a new-boater has bought a 'bit of a wreck' and doesn't understand why she shouldn't use a domestic electrician to re-wire it. Always assume the questioner doesn't know, hence his/her questions. Until you get the knowledge 'you know nothing and will make mistakes', He has done the right thing by asking, and at least now won't set the magic smoke lose and possibly set fire to his boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiler Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 55 minutes ago, Onewheeler said: I won't be drawn... Think I might have one of those in my box of very old electricals. I didn't think Rabbits had been around that long?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opener Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 Just spent a jolly couple of hours trying to work out why the extract bit of my Manrose light/fan would not run when mounted yet ran whilst hanging by its wires. Felt like the blades were binding somewhere but could I work out where ?. Eventually separated the fan bit but it would still 'catch' - non standard solution. Quick squirt of WD40 into the housing and it now runs smoothly. Worth a try cos direct replacement seems to run between £30-odd and £98. Watch this space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Opener said: Just spent a jolly couple of hours trying to work out why the extract bit of my Manrose light/fan would not run when mounted yet ran whilst hanging by its wires. Felt like the blades were binding somewhere but could I work out where ?. Eventually separated the fan bit but it would still 'catch' - non standard solution. Quick squirt of WD40 into the housing and it now runs smoothly. Worth a try cos direct replacement seems to run between £30-odd and £98. Watch this space? The ones I have seen are designed to run 'vertically' and have the word 'top' moulded into the casing. If you are running it horizontal (on a ceiling) it could cause the fan to drop 'downwards' in its bearings and catch/rub. Edited July 25, 2020 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opener Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: The ones I have seen are designed to run 'vertically' and have the word 'top' moulded into the casing. If you are running it horizontal (on a ceiling) it could cause the fan to drop 'downwards' in its bearings and catch/rub. I have to presume that it is a ceiling version - has a central light incorporated and vents out through a munchroom. Lots of moisture from below and above so all screws nice and rusty. It ran when we first purchased the boat but only seems to have stopped recently. Well, it's running again now...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opener Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 Oops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain_S Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 4 hours ago, OldGoat said: I second that Wharrabout geting a 12V vibrator (sometimes used in WWII radio power supplies.....) Perhaps more sensibly and if the OP doesn't mind tinkering around (assuming the AC fan has alreadt been purchased), then 12V DC computer fans can be had from Ebay There is an updated solid state one available, via the WS19 group. Direct replacement for the original. As an aside, the first car radio I had was a valve one, with HT being generated by a vibrator and transformer. Failed when the vibrator stopped working, putting DC into the transformer and melting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulD Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Iain_S said: There is an updated solid state one available, via the WS19 group. Direct replacement for the original. As an aside, the first car radio I had was a valve one, with HT being generated by a vibrator and transformer. Failed when the vibrator stopped working, putting DC into the transformer and melting it. Reminds me of the old communist days Prague joke about the "new" 16 valve Skoda. 8 in the engine and 8 in the radio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onewheeler Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 It could probably be fixed with a 555, a MOSFET and a transformer. Or by buying the right one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbybass Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 On 25/07/2020 at 19:48, Iain_S said: As an aside, the first car radio I had was a valve one, with HT being generated by a vibrator and transformer. Failed when the vibrator stopped working, putting DC into the transformer and melting it. My first car...a Skoda...had 16 valves. 8 in the engine and 8 in the radio. The vibrator suddenly stopping working...can lead to all kinds of distress. Plan ahead ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 On 25/07/2020 at 21:54, PaulD said: Reminds me of the old communist days Prague joke about the "new" 16 valve Skoda. 8 in the engine and 8 in the radio. 9 minutes ago, Bobbybass said: My first car...a Skoda...had 16 valves. 8 in the engine and 8 in the radio. There's an echo in here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulD Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 What do you call a convertible Skoda ? A skip. Why do Skoda's have a heated rear screen? To keep your hands warm when pushing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGoat Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, PaulD said: What do you call a convertible Skoda ? A skip. Why do Skoda's have a heated rear screen? To keep your hands warm when pushing it. I say, I say, I say I don't need to know that. Kindly leave the room.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbybass Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 Where do you find the dipstick in a Skoda ? Behind the wheel..... I went in a garage and said I wanted a windscreen wiper for a Skoda. The man said...that sounds like a fair deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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