Fitting and Installing Navigation & Exterior Lights

[Rob-M]

4 hours ago, blackrose said:

Do people actually use nav lights in tunnels?

We have them as they were on the boat when we purchased it, the port\starboard lights are wired in with the tunnel lamp so come on when the tunnel lamp is on. We used to have a white light on the stern as well but it was on the suicide seats so when I had them cut off the light was removed. I do turn the rear cabin light on that is inside the rear slide when in a tunnel though so there is a light on at the stern.

[system 4-50]

Nav lights? For finding the boat after the Pub. Tunnel light? For boiling off the mist/fog in the tunnel...

[Ouse on Board?]

9 hours ago, Onewheeler said:

my preference is to use temporary lights either magnetically attached or on a removable mast.

 

 

I am after some magnetic ones if anyone knows of any commercially available ones, otherwise i guess its off to the shed

[Onewheeler]

1 minute ago, Ouse on Board? said:

I am after some magnetic ones if anyone knows of any commercially available ones, otherwise i guess its off to the shed

I think I found some when looking a while ago on eBay. Otherwise it's magnet and glue time.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Ouse on Board? said:

I am after some magnetic ones if anyone knows of any commercially available ones, otherwise i guess its off to the shed

Google is very helpful with such requests ;

1,960,000 results in 0.49 seconds for 'Magnetic Navigation Lights'

 

Here is one supplier :

https://www.marinesuperstore.com/lighting/navigation-lights

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 hour ago, Rob-M said:

I do turn the rear cabin light on that is inside the rear slide when in a tunnel though so there is a light on at the stern.

Do you open the doors the correct amount to give a 135 degree angle to the light? ?

A light at the stern in a tunnel can be very confusing as has already been mentioned. Been following a boat with their nav lights on in a tunnel and thought it was coming towards me as all I could see was a white light. Realised it was heading in the same direction as me when it didn't get any closer. Approaching is fine as you can see the white light and the red and green, but since most boats are showing and only need to show a white tunnel light, they are superfluous.

I've only ever used the nav lights once on my boat, leaving Goole on the Aire and Calder in early morning mist. You really can meet some quite big boats there.

Jen

[Rob-M]

8 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Do you open the doors the correct amount to give a 135 degree angle to the light? ?

A light at the stern in a tunnel can be very confusing as has already been mentioned. Been following a boat with their nav lights on in a tunnel and thought it was coming towards me as all I could see was a white light. Realised it was heading in the same direction as me when it didn't get any closer. Approaching is fine as you can see the white light and the red and green, but since most boats are showing and only need to show a white tunnel light, they are superfluous.

I've only ever used the nav lights once on my boat, leaving Goole on the Aire and Calder in early morning mist. You really can meet some quite big boats there.

Jen

I'm stood on the steerer step so blocking most of the light.

[Scholar Gypsy]

Here are my masthead and red/green nav lights, on a removable mast. The large size, for 20m vessels.  

 

Ideally it would be a bit higher and with greater separation but that could cause headroom problems on some rivers. The stern light hooks over the stern doors. 

 

For tunnels I use a spotlight mounted at the rear of the boat, controllable by the steerer as this enables you to see where the roof of the boat is in relation to the tunnel walls, and avoid blinding oncoming boaters; and a very low power bulkhead light at the bows (you can see that too in this photo) just to show oncoming boats where the front of the boat is.

[Detling]

Don't fit thye side light to near the front of the cabin as so many narrow boat builders do, as it the best place to get them smashed in bridge arches or tunnels, there is no reference in COLREGS saying they have to be near the front, only height above gunwale, indeed Oil tankers often have then 3/4 of the way towards the stern, mine are about 10 feet back from the cabin front but unfortunately not quite high enough (100mm to low).  The steaming light (white one pointing forward ) needs to have a collapsible mast ,as it should be a minimum of 2 meters above the side lights, the viewing angles of these lights are important.

As said the stern light can cause confusion so either a seperate switch or even a cover for use in tunnels. Thames, Humber, and Trent specify you need them and below the normal 'canal boat area' they sometimes check. (PLA do)

Edited July 25, 2020 by Detling
spelling

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, Ouse on Board? said:

I am after some magnetic ones if anyone knows of any commercially available ones, otherwise i guess its off to the shed

I have never seen any that comply with the COLREG

Just go to someone who does vinyl signs for cars and he will probably have sheets of magnetic material that they make removable signs with for the likes of taxis etc.

Edited July 25, 2020 by ditchcrawler

[LadyG]

On 25/07/2020 at 10:14, dmr said:

We have nav lights that almost meet the regs, mounted towards the back of the boat at the engine room. They meet the spec for boats up to 20m but we are just over 20m (like you) so they might not be compliant. They get right in the way when I walk down the gunnel so replacing them with something a bit smaller is on the todo list. Not sure what the regs would say about smaller lights with brighter bulbs in them.

 

.............Dave

I believe it's the visibility of the lights, in miles, and all 360 degrees need to be covered.

It's probably not the size of the things.

Problem with a narrowboat, is that if mounted on the forward cabin sides as is usual, there is a dead spot, so anyone seeing a boat head on could in theory not see either red or green is 360 degrees is not covered by the lights.

 

[ditchcrawler]

21 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I believe it's the visibility of the lights, in miles, and all 360 degrees need to be covered.

It's probably not the size of the things.

Problem with a narrowboat, is that if mounted on the forward cabin sides as is usual, there is a dead spot, so anyone seeing a boat head on could in theory not see either red or green is 360 degrees is not covered by the lights.

 

I thought you were a seafarer, red and green are not visible through 360 deg

[Tony Brooks]

14 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I thought you were a seafarer, red and green are not visible through 360 deg

 

Definitely not and the masking effect of the cabin side or masking board on rigging is exactly what is required. Seeing white, red and green ahead says a ship is moving straight at you. Se a white and a red or a green and it is coming towards you but at an angle or running at right angle to you so is not a danger.

 

Few, if any of the magnetic lamps I have seen seem to compliant as far as many narrowboats are concerned by reason of length of boat.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Tony Brooks

[LadyG]

6 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I thought you were a seafarer, red and green are not visible through 360 deg

I did not say they were, look up the colregs and don't be a burke

Edited August 3, 2022 by LadyG

[Bod]

9 hours ago, LadyG said:

I believe it's the visibility of the lights, in miles, and all 360 degrees need to be covered.

It's probably not the size of the things.

Problem with a narrowboat, is that if mounted on the forward cabin sides as is usual, there is a dead spot, so anyone seeing a boat head on could in theory not see either red or green is 360 degrees is not covered by the lights.

 

I'm not saying anything, but I can see where this will go.

 

Bod.

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, LadyG said:

I did not say they were, look up the colregs and don't be a burke

I know the regs, maybe its your poor wording

"there is a dead spot, so anyone seeing a boat head on could in theory not see either red or green is 360 degrees is not covered by the lights."

[Richard10002]

27 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I know the regs, maybe its your poor wording

"there is a dead spot, so anyone seeing a boat head on could in theory not see either red or green is 360 degrees is not covered by the lights."

I'm guessing she meant to type , " i.e. ", between green and 360 degrees.

 

"i.e. 360 degrees is not covered by lights"

 

Having said that, if you are actually in the dead spot, you are pretty close to hitting the boat in question, or on its bow. In addition, you have come from a point outside the dead spot, where you will have been able to see red and/or green, for some time.

[PD1964]

@LadyGYour replying to a post 2 years old???

Also surly you would see both red/green lights if a boat was head on, as it would be coming straight towards you, bow to bow on the same line or head on, as they say😄

Edited August 3, 2022 by PD1964

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, PD1964 said:

@LadyGYour replying to a post 2 years old???

Also surly you would see both red/green lights if a boat was head on, as it would be coming straight towards you, bow to bow on the same line or head on, as they say😄

 

 

[PD1964]

34 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

So yes, you should be able do see both lights if looked at head on, even when viewing a Narrowboat head on.

  I don’t see where the dead spot is when viewed straight head on, as @LadyG says there is??

[Scholar Gypsy]

Many boats have nav lights installed in baffle fittings - you can see the starboard one here, just under the windscreen - to prevent light straying over the centre line. As others have noted, there will be a small cone - maybe a few degrees around dead ahead - where you can see red and green lights.  If you can see neither then  you will be only a few feet away and your lookout has already failed...

 

[LadyG]

On 25/07/2020 at 08:26, blackrose said:

If you want to meet the requirements of the Colregs don't buy the nav lights that your see fitted to most narrowboats because they're too small and only for boats of under 40ft (12m). You'll have to go for bigger lights. Or just do what most inland boaters do and make yourself visible without complying with the Colregs in their entirety.

 

To be honest a lot of canal boaters would have no idea what they were looking at if they went onto a big river at night and saw green or red nav lights moving around. I've got my nav lights on a mast and seen comments on this forum before where people thought that was wrong and they had to be on the cabin sides because nav lights were for judging the width of approaching boats! Width is a canal mindset. One would rarely see both port and starboard lights at the same time even if a boat was approaching. Most don't understand sound signals either.

Only the bravest, or foolhardy skipper would navigate at night or in poor visibility on the standard widebeam, particularly on a commercial waterway, in my opinion. The Exol Pride lifted my narrowboat (on pins) about six inches, she was travelling about 5 knots on a wide canal.

These narrowboats / widebeams are not designed for seafaring. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by LadyG

[blackrose]

21 hours ago, LadyG said:

I believe it's the visibility of the lights, in miles, and all 360 degrees need to be covered.

It's probably not the size of the things.

 

No the size of the nav lights is different for boats under/over 12m in length. I think the nav light size requirement goes up again for boats over 20m. Read the Colregs. 

24 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Only the bravest, or foolhardy skipper would navigate at night or in poor visibility on the standard widebeam, particularly on a commercial waterway, in my opinion. 

 

I've been from Limehouse to Teddington on my widebeam at night. I didn't feel particularly brave or foolhardy at the time. It really wasn't that difficult. Perhaps it's not the sort of commercial waterway you were thinking of. 

[blackrose]

36 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

If you can see neither then  you will be only a few feet away and your lookout has already failed... 

 

Or you're just too far away to see them. 

[PD1964]

32 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Only the bravest, or foolhardy skipper would navigate at night or in poor visibility on the standard widebeam, particularly on a commercial waterway, in my opinion. The Exol Pride lifted my narrowboat (on pins) about six inches, she was travelling about 5 knots on a wide canal.

These narrowboats / widebeams are not designed for seafaring. 

 That’s why they travel on the canals and not the sea, the Exol Pride doesn’t travel at night, she moves from 8am-4pm. So the waterway your on is quite safe to travel at night if you know it and you know what your doing.

Edited August 4, 2022 by PD1964