3-pin 12v socket to cigar lighter adapter?

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, 11MoustachioedDs said:

Can round pin 3-pin sockets be fitted in the 12V system of new boat or are there any regs that specify otherwise for new builds?  I haven't managed to find any information about it and people seem to use a mad old mixture of socket types for 12V.  I'm fitting out a sailaway and dislike and distrust the cigarette lighter sockets; ideally I'd use the round pin AC sockets as they fit nicely over a standard backbox.

 

And if round pin sockets can be used is it best practice to wire the earth to the negative/0V?

 

Regs specify that 12V and 240V plugs/sockets should be different, but doesn't specify what types you can and can't use.

 

Yes boatbuilders use a right old mix of plug/socket types. That's because there isn't any sensible recognised standard 12V connector, which is robust in use for small and large currents, and of reasonable appearance for use in your living space (rather than your workshop or laboratory bench). The nearest to a universal standard is the car cigarette lighter socket, hence the preponderance of these despite their distinct limitations.

 

5A round pin plugs/sockets are a workaround. Reasonably widely available, and of appearance compatible with domestic mains plugs/sockets, so acceptable for the living space. Its a good idea to wire to the earth and neutral pins, so that if you plug your 12V boat lamp into a 5A socket in a building, or plug the 240V table light with 5a plug (the sort you sometimes find in hotel rooms) into your boat socket, nothing will go go bang.

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

 

Clever and thoughtful people these RCD chaps, but would be so much nicer just to have little brass plates next to each socket saying 12volt or 240volt, a bit like the pump out and diesel things.

 

...............Dave

Nothing stopping you doing that too

1 hour ago, 11MoustachioedDs said:

That looks like 1-1 for/against using round pins for DC.  Hmm...

Plus Alan agreed that the round pin were okay.  So if you ignore the vote against, which was wrong, it's 2-0 in favour

[WotEver]

45 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Its a good idea to wire to the earth and neutral pins, so that if you plug your 12V boat lamp into a 5A socket in a building, or plug the 240V table light with 5a plug (the sort you sometimes find in hotel rooms) into your boat socket, nothing will go go bang.

Agreed. As far as a ‘standard’ goes, this appears to be the usual way to do it. 

[GUMPY]

8 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

What makes you think he cannot ?

Because the sockets are 230v sockets and are not designed or tested at 12v.

You wouldn't use a 12v socket on 230v 

[WotEver]

25 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Because the sockets are 230v sockets and are not designed or tested at 12v.

Where in the ISOs is that a requirement?  All the ISO states is that they musn’t be interchangeable with the 230V sockets, which they aren’t. 

[GUMPY]

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

Where in the ISOs is that a requirement?  All the ISO states is that they musn’t be interchangeable with the 230V sockets, which they aren’t. 

I haven't read the iso so can't answer that.

It is however bad practice to use items that are not rated for use at the required voltage.

you wouldn't use a 12v socket on 230v!

[WotEver]

5 minutes ago, Loddon said:

I haven't read the iso so can't answer that.

It is however bad practice to use items that are not rated for use at the required voltage.

you wouldn't use a 12v socket on 230v!

That’s because of the spark gap and insulation properties. However, it’s irrelevant.  
 

You implied, without any reference to the actual documentation, that it wouldn’t comply with the RCD if he used them . By contrast, I have read the ISOs and can see nothing to back up your assertion that ‘he can’t use them’. 

[GUMPY]

According to the ISO would it be a acceptable if my boat was wired with Shuko mains sockets for 230v to use 13amp uk plugs and sockets for 12v?

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Loddon said:

I haven't read the iso so can't answer that.

I posted the ISO requirements 4 posts before you said that the plugs / sockets cannot be used.

Did you not read that ?

[GUMPY]

13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I posted the ISO requirements 4 posts before you said that the plugs / sockets cannot be used.

Did you not read that ?

Yes I mean't I haven't read the complete ISO .

 

[WotEver]

45 minutes ago, Loddon said:

According to the ISO would it be a acceptable if my boat was wired with Shuko mains sockets for 230v to use 13amp uk plugs and sockets for 12v?

Yes, absolutely, although it would be stupid.

[GUMPY]

Just now, WotEver said:

Yes, absolutely, although it would be stupid.

That is exactly the same as using round pin plugs and sockets for 12v

 

[WotEver]

Just now, Loddon said:

That is exactly the same as using round pin plugs and sockets for 12v

Which you said he couldn't do!

[GUMPY]

10 hours ago, WotEver said:

Which you said he couldn't do!

Which I said he shouldn't do!

because as you said in post 86 its stupid using 230v plugs and sockets on 12v

 

[Alan de Enfield]

21 hours ago, Loddon said:

In which case you cant use round pin plugs and sockets.

 

"Can't was the word you used.

 

NOT :

 

"shouldn't"

 

It doesn't hurt to be man enough to admit you made a mistake.

"The man who never made a mistake never made anything"

 

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[WotEver]

7 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Which I said he shouldn't do!

because as you said in post 86 its stupid using 230v plugs and sockets on 12v

 

What I said is that it would be stupid to use the current UK standard BS1363 230V socket for 12V. Every piece of mains equipment sold in the UK has such a plug fitted. That’s why it would be stupid. Even though it wouldn’t contravene the RCD ISOs. 
 

It isn’t stupid to use a plug and socket that’s been superseded in the UK for mains use since 1947 and where absolutely nothing is sold fitted with such a plug. 

[Alan de Enfield]

.Duplicate

Edited August 12, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[WotEver]

You said he “can’t”  Yes he can. 

[GUMPY]

Ok  I said can't!

We have this argument about round pin plugs an sockets every time they are mentioned

15amp ones are still used in Theatre lighting, just.

The smaller ones are still used for movable lights in various places such as hotels and in some homes. Normally the sort of homes no one on here could afford.

Even John lewis are still selling them so not quite obsolete yet.

Using a round pin plug for 12v is no more sensible than using a 13a plug if you have another type of plug on 230v.

We obviously wont agree and it seems to be permitted under the iso, does it say in the iso that connectors have to be rated for their use?

If it does then round pins aren't rated for 12v......

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Loddon

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Loddon said:

does it say in the iso that connectors have to be rated for their use?

No

 

I quoted the ONLY 3 bullet points in the ISO specification relating to plugs and sockets in the earlier post.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

48 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Ok  I said can't!

We have this argument about round pin plugs an sockets every time they are mentioned

15amp ones are still used in Theatre lighting, just.

The smaller ones are still used for movable lights in various places such as hotels and in some homes. Normally the sort of homes no one on here could afford.

Even John lewis are still selling them so not quite obsolete yet.

Using a round pin plug for 12v is no more sensible than using a 13a plug if you have another type of plug on 230v.

We obviously wont agree and it seems to be permitted under the iso, does it say in the iso that connectors have to be rated for their use?

If it does then round pins aren't rated for 12v......

 

 

 

I've a vague memory of someone on CWDF recommending connecting a 3 pin round socket for boats with 0V on the earth pin and 12V on the neutral pin. That way, if someone plugs a correctly wired mains appliance in to it, nothing will happen. Similarly, if a 12V gadget with a round pin plug wired this way is plugged in to a 240V AC socket, nothing will happen.  No magic smoke escapes. No one dies. Doubt it is in any standard though. 

Jen

[WotEver]

57 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

I've a vague memory of someone on CWDF recommending connecting a 3 pin round socket for boats with 0V on the earth pin and 12V on the neutral pin. That way, if someone plugs a correctly wired mains appliance in to it, nothing will happen. Similarly, if a 12V gadget with a round pin plug wired this way is plugged in to a 240V AC socket, nothing will happen.  No magic smoke escapes. No one dies. Doubt it is in any standard though. 

Jen

Yup, see posts 76 & 78.

[LoneCruiser]

Good afternoon one and all... can I tag onto the end of this lead please?

 

i have just found out after 3 years afloat that the 3 pin (not round) sockets I have, are in fact live... wired a plug up and touched the 2 ends to a 12v bulb... a truly enlightening experience... have followed the above avidly but have a question please!!!

 

can I get a 12v usb charger that plugs into the 3 pin socket, one that starts out life as 12v, or would I need to wire a usb socket to the end of my cable?

 

or maybe even a usb 12v car charger, cutting the end off, although it’s been said on here it can overheat ... 

 

don't want to tinker with me “working” sockets !!!

 

PS... I realise my question has essentially been answered in the posts above, but being no sparky, just checking!!!

 

i think the Lidl device would have been good by the way!!!

 

I thank you  

 

David

Edited September 4, 2020 by LoneCruiser
Added text

[WotEver]

56 minutes ago, LoneCruiser said:

can I get a 12v usb charger that plugs into the 3 pin socket, one that starts out life as 12v, or would I need to wire a usb socket to the end of my cable?

 

or maybe even a usb 12v car charger, cutting the end off, although it’s been said on here it can overheat ... 

nothing neat that I’m aware of. 
 

You could use something like this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07B7H8L9K/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_4iKuFbQ5D07HK

 

Plugged into something like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003SQ6U6Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_ikKuFb18BV6S8

 

Then cut off those crocodile clips and wire the cable into a plug. 
 

But far neater would be something like this (although it requires wiring in):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B084S64LLR/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_YlKuFbA6CRAA8

 

Cheers,

Tony
 

[LoneCruiser]

2 hours ago, WotEver said:

nothing neat that I’m aware of. 
 

You could use something like this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07B7H8L9K/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_4iKuFbQ5D07HK

 

Plugged into something like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003SQ6U6Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_ikKuFb18BV6S8

 

Then cut off those crocodile clips and wire the cable into a plug. 
 

But far neater would be something like this (although it requires wiring in):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B084S64LLR/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_YlKuFbA6CRAA8

 

Cheers,

Tony
 

Thank you Tony

 

some great ideas there...

 

really appreciate your reply & for taking the time to research my enquiry!! 

 

keep safe n well

 

v/best regards

 

David

 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by LoneCruiser
Added text