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Speeding Boat, Best Excuse

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10 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

What is this washing concept?

Big pins, four of them, two at each end, with the ropes at say 30 degree angle to the bank, and fenders.

That was not enough when I had a 25 ton boat, they still worked loose with shallow canals like the Llangollen when the water was sucked out from under the boat.

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2 minutes ago, JamesFrance said:

That was not enough when I had a 25 ton boat, they still worked loose with shallow canals like the Llangollen when the water was sucked out from under the boat.

 

How big were the pins?  The "normal" sized ones are a waste of space and bend when I drive them through rocks ...

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4 minutes ago, JamesFrance said:

That was not enough when I had a 25 ton boat, they still worked loose with shallow canals like the Llangollen when the water was sucked out from under the boat.

Maybe you should try the Leeds Liverpool.  In some parts there's no chance of any water under your boat. 😊

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10 minutes ago, JamesFrance said:

Could someone please explain how to tie a boat up properly when there are no rings bollards or piling available?  

If you have to be on stakes, which is fairly canal-dependant eg common on the K&A, rare on midlands canals, then the same rules as usual apply. Lines at around 45degrees to the direction of the boat, stakes knocked right in at 90 degrees to direction of pull, with the rope around the stake at ground level and through the loop for security, not just through the loop.

 

If you are going to leave the boat for a prolonged period unattended on stakes into soft ground, chances are it will come adrift eventually so don’t do it, or if you must, use 2 stakes at each end set at an angle to each other so the propensity for the stakes to pull through the ground is minimal.
 

Many, many continuous moorer type boats on stakes fail on some or all of the above points, and then whinge that it’s all so unfair that boats are moving.

 

Any considerate passing boater will see the boat is on stakes and go slower. However when a boat is moored on rings/bollards/to piling there is no excuse for mooring in such a way that the slightest water disturbance causes the boat to rock and clank. This especially applies to permanent moorers, you would think it would be in their interests to tie their boats up properly (they only have to do it once!) - it isn’t hard so I can only conclude that they get pleasure from their boat jerking and rocking as the 3’ of slack yanks tight, and enjoy an excuse to project their dismal lives onto other by shouting at them.
 

The bottom line is that if you want to moor your boat on line, you are responsible for making best endeavours to secure it properly. It is not the responsibility of others to compensate for your incompetence. If you don’t like that, put the boat in a marina.

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2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

How big were the pins?  The "normal" sized ones are a waste of space and bend when I drive them through rocks ...

Need some big boy's 

IMG_20200723_130552.jpg

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23 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Ask Nick, he's such an expert his boat never moves. He perhaps uses a spare halo?

TD'

Ah Tracy my dear, now that I have traversed much of the Shroppie I can sort of see your problem. This canal has become a virtually continuous line of permanent moorers of whom it seems you are one. After several hours at tickover passing badly moored permanent moorers, I can imagine that for some folk lose patience. That said, we have seen no sign of any speeding boats that could possibly have any effect on a well moored boat, so those impatient people must be a tiny minority.

 

I suggest that if you are struggling with being moored along with miles and miles of other nose to tail boats and can’t abide the 0.01% of moving boaters that lose patience with it, that a marina beckons. Apparently, Overwater is great. Or heaven forbid you could actually use your boat for its intended purpose!

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13 minutes ago, JamesFrance said:

That was not enough when I had a 25 ton boat, they still worked loose with shallow canals like the Llangollen when the water was sucked out from under the boat.

Pins less than at least 3 feet long and of the type sold in most inland boat places are useless. Get some made up. I bought two beauties off ebay a few years ago. 

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Anyway this thread is fascinating in that it lays bare the contrasting wishes of those who cruise their boats, and those who use them as floating homes or floating second homes whilst wanting a nice linear mooring with cows on one side and ducks on the other. Each really would like the other to not exist. As far as I can tell the only solution is war.

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8 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

Need some big boy's 

 

Those pins look a good size, but that skinny bike cable won't hold you on the Calder in flood! :D

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Those pins look a good size, but that skinny bike cable won't hold you on the Calder in flood! :D

 

 

 

 

No but stops the scrotes from nicking them 😁

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17 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

with the rope around the stake at ground level and through the loop for security, not just through the loop.

 

If the loop isn't at or below ground level you aren't knocking the pins in far enough!

 

You are correct though - the number of people who tap a pin 2" into soft mud then tie to the top of the pin is ridiculous.  

 

 

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2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Ah Tracy my dear, now that I have traversed much of the Shroppie I can sort of see your problem. This canal has become a virtually continuous line of permanent moorers of whom it seems you are one. After several hours at tickover passing badly moored permanent moorers, I can imagine that for some folk lose patience. That said, we have seen no sign of any speeding boats that could possibly have any effect on a well moored boat, so those impatient people must be a tiny minority.

 

I suggest that if you are struggling with being moored along with miles and miles of other nose to tail boats and can’t abide the 0.01% of moving boaters that lose patience with it, that a marina beckons. Apparently, Overwater is great. Or heaven forbid you could actually use your boat for its intended purpose!

Fatuous statements ,so wrong, so badly informed. But never mind, you have so many sucking up to you and licking you a**e you can afford one or two who think little of you Telemachus.

Consider that some of us real boaters have been boating as long or longer than yourself, many on the Shroppie with its poor banks and the "step" in places to make mooring at all a challenge.  It is not a continuous line of moored boats that never move but a popular canal leading to one of the most popular cruising routes to LLangolan, Chester, the Weaver etc.

If you don't like cruising on a canal where there are other boats why don't you clear off and take you boat home North of the border where you can have a loch all to yourself, anchor your boat with as many ropes, lines chains as you like? Roll on Scottish independence then we can close the border.

TD'

15 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Anyway this thread is fascinating in that it lays bare the contrasting wishes of those who cruise their boats, and those who use them as floating homes or floating second homes whilst wanting a nice linear mooring with cows on one side and ducks on the other. Each really would like the other to not exist. As far as I can tell the only solution is war.

Silly.

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32 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Each really would like the other to not exist. As far as I can tell the only solution is war.

That's not actually true, most of us get on fine. It's just those who think they are more important than the rest of us who cause the problems.

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41 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

 

However when a boat is moored on rings/bollards/to piling there is no excuse for mooring in such a way that the slightest water disturbance causes the boat to rock and clank.

I'm currently moored on piling on the Ashby.  Loads of boats moving and my boat is rocking and clanking because my lines are loose.  I do have excuses for this:

 

1.  I'm too lazy to get up and tighten the lines.

2.  I quite like the rocking and clanking :D

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Just now, doratheexplorer said:

I'm currently moored on piling on the Ashby.  Loads of boats moving and my boat is rocking and clanking because my lines are loose.  I do have excuses for this:

 

1.  I'm too lazy to get up and tighten the lines.

2.  I quite like the rocking and clanking :D

But you are not complaining about it which is where the difference lies.

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These

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161506846917

Work well when driven in 

I carry four, Normally only use two and have never had a "pin" pull out.

You do need a decent hammer to put them in something like this;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321456166581

The little toffee hammers that most boaters use are useless.

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40 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Ah Tracy my dear, now that I have traversed much of the Shroppie I can sort of see your problem. This canal has become a virtually continuous line of permanent moorers of whom it seems you are one. After several hours at tickover passing badly moored permanent moorers, I can imagine that for some folk lose patience. That said, we have seen no sign of any speeding boats that could possibly have any effect on a well moored boat, so those impatient people must be a tiny minority.

 

I suggest that if you are struggling with being moored along with miles and miles of other nose to tail boats and can’t abide the 0.01% of moving boaters that lose patience with it, that a marina beckons. Apparently, Overwater is great. Or heaven forbid you could actually use your boat for its intended purpose!

If you hate the Shroppie so much, I have to wonder why you're on it??

 

I'll be coming down the Shroppie in a few weeks and I'm very much looking forward to spending miles on tickover.  So peaceful and a real chance to take in the surroundings and wildlife.  Quite often I travel at barely above tickover even when there aren't moored boats.  It's lovely.  4 mph is a limit not an ambition.

2 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

But you are not complaining about it which is where the difference lies.

Certainly not.  It's FUN!

 

  • Greenie 1

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5 hours ago, nicknorman said:

for the first 8 years of ownership we almost exclusively flew to the boat without hold baggage,

I've sometimes wondered how you achieved this, as from what I gather these were merely weekend visits because of work schedules. Did you pick out whichever airport was nearest to wheevver the boat was moored, fly down there and get a taxi to the boat? I suppose that in the Midlands you're rarely out of range of Castle Donington, Brum or, if you want to slum it, Luton.

7 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

If you hate the Shroppie so much, I have to wonder why you're on it??

 

 

 

I didn't know that I hated Marmite until I'd tried it.

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56 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

The bottom line is that if you want to moor your boat on line, you are responsible for making best endeavours to secure it properly. It is not the responsibility of others to compensate for your incompetence. If you don’t like that, put the boat in a marina.

Yes I know all that and do so.   Having boated since the 60s when I was used to wooden narrowboats and also ran hire boats I don't feel the need for tuition.

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1 hour ago, Jon57 said:

Need some big boy's 

IMG_20200723_130552.jpg

I'm a little unclear of the physics behind the idea that increased diameter to the pins makes for a better mooring.

 

The main reason, as far as I experience it, for a pin mooring coming adrift is that the pin is pulled sideways in soft ground until it is unable to offer any frictional resistance to being pulled out - which only happens once the pin is quite much closer to being in line with the rope. OK, so an increase circumference will mean greater friction but is it that much of a difference? If the ground is soft enough for the pin to be pulled sideways then it is going to come out anyway.

 

It always intrigues me that often, even when the pin has not shifted at all overnight, it can still be removed easily by pulling on it along the line of the pin. What is important. above all other factors, is to make sure that the pin is aligned at 90 deg to the line of the rope (usually means at an angle, and that the rope is attached to the pin as close to the ground as possible (I'm not sure that burying it adds much - but it can make it less of an obstacle)

 

I know that practical experience is king when oit comes to matters of boating, but just occasionally it comforts me to see it backed up by science (Yes, I know that it can also be a smokescreen!)

 

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1 hour ago, JamesFrance said:

Could someone please explain how to tie a boat up properly when there are no rings bollards or piling available?  

 

13 minutes ago, JamesFrance said:

Having boated since the 60s when I was used to wooden narrowboats and also ran hire boats I don't feel the need for tuition.

Do you have a split personality?

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Just now, Mike Todd said:

I'm a little unclear of the physics behind the idea that increased diameter to the pins makes for a better mooring.

 

It doesn't, but the extra length makes an enormous difference in resistance to pulling out sideways. 

 

The extra diameter is so that the pins are tough enough to take the extra hammering they need, as a 3 foot long pin that was as skinny as the "normal" 18 inch pins would bend when it hit a rock.

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24 minutes ago, Athy said:

I've sometimes wondered how you achieved this, as from what I gather these were merely weekend visits because of work schedules. Did you pick out whichever airport was nearest to wheevver the boat was moored, fly down there and get a taxi to the boat? I suppose that in the Midlands you're rarely out of range of Castle Donington, Brum or, if you want to slum it, Luton.

I didn't know that I hated Marmite until I'd tried it.

Boat was at Fazeley Mill Marina, a £20 taxi ride from Birmingham airport. Flybe had 3 or 4 flights a day to/from birmingham including Friday evening down and Sunday evening back. Could be got for about £80 if you booked it well in advance. And if flights were on time, it would be about 3 hrs 15 door to door (Aberdeen Airport about 15 mins by car from our house, free parking in company car park).

41 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

That's not actually true, most of us get on fine. It's just those who think they are more important than the rest of us who cause the problems.

True.

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2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

 

Do you have a split personality?

No, I was just curious to read the replies, I would never leave a boat unattended on pins, but think that passing moored boats at speed is inconsiderate and their owners should not be blamed for their own incompetence when they say so.

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1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Fatuous statements ,so wrong, so badly informed. But never mind, you have so many sucking up to you and licking you a**e you can afford one or two who think little of you Telemachus.

Consider that some of us real boaters have been boating as long or longer than yourself, many on the Shroppie with its poor banks and the "step" in places to make mooring at all a challenge.  It is not a continuous line of moored boats that never move but a popular canal leading to one of the most popular cruising routes to LLangolan, Chester, the Weaver etc.

If you don't like cruising on a canal where there are other boats why don't you clear off and take you boat home North of the border where you can have a loch all to yourself, anchor your boat with as many ropes, lines chains as you like? Roll on Scottish independence then we can close the border.

TD'

Silly.

It’s a nice canal, spoilt only by the miles and miles of permanently-moored boats. Still, nothing is perfect.

 

Also I am unsure what makes one a “real boater”. Obviously there is nothing in the dictionary to help, but I would have thought it was something along the lines of using one’s boat for navigation rather than as a floating cottage, so I’m unclear how you can claim that description.

Edited by nicknorman

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