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2 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

 What did you expect would happen?

 

MP.

Honest declarations, such as the ones which I, and no doubt you and most forum members, make, of course.

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4 minutes ago, Athy said:

Honest declarations, such as the ones which I, and no doubt you and most forum members, make, of course.

You are kidding.

I don't know anyone that has declared 60/40 unless that is all the supplier would do, I have only once when forced to, at least the price was good as I took 900l.

Most people I know declare 100% domestic no matter what their intended use is.

Interestingly you have to declare intended use, so if your intention is to sit on your moorings and run it through your heater then circumstances change and you go boating how can you account for that?

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5 minutes ago, Loddon said:

You are kidding.

 

No, I most certainly am not. An accusation of mass dishonesty amongst CWDF members is one which I would not make at all, never mind lightly.

6 minutes ago, Loddon said:

 

Interestingly you have to declare intended use, so if your intention is to sit on your moorings and run it through your heater then circumstances change and you go boating how can you account for that?

This is a good (and perhaps not widely known) point, and one which is very relevant at the moment.

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19 minutes ago, Athy said:

This is a good (and perhaps not widely known) point, and one which is very relevant at the moment.

 

And a point which is highlighted in the  regulations saying that if you have subsequently changed your plans you should adjust your next declaration to correct it and 'balance out' the declaration.

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1 hour ago, MoominPapa said:

Whenever I fill in the declaration sheet, I glance down the page to see what others have declared. I'd say half declaring 100% domestic is on the low side. Most fuel boats don't even ask these days.

 

MP.

I once got fuel in the early days of the declaration system and the owner would only accept 100% domestic and proved it by showing sheets and sheets with just that declaration.

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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

And a point which is highlighted in the  regulations saying that if you have subsequently changed your plans you should adjust your next declaration to correct it and 'balance out' the declaration.

Which of course everyone does :)

 

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10 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Which of course everyone does :)

 

There appears to be accusations of tax evasion, lying and downright 'bad-eggs' for the whole of the boating community, are you now saying they do amend their claims to cater for a change in circumstances.

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lodden is right in what he is saying .know one is forced to declare any thing , fill up and be on your way .the sellers could not care less  and thats from the horses mouth so to say 

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1 hour ago, Loddon said:

You are kidding.

I don't know anyone that has declared 60/40 unless that is all the supplier would do, I have only once when forced to, at least the price was good as I took 900l.

Most people I know declare 100% domestic no matter what their intended use is.

Interestingly you have to declare intended use, so if your intention is to sit on your moorings and run it through your heater then circumstances change and you go boating how can you account for that?

I declared 60:40 at the weekend as we have just boated a long way running the engine for moving the boat every day.  As you say it is supposed to be intended use which when I previously filled up a long journey wasnt on the cards as it was for winter so would be mainly heating.

42 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

And a point which is highlighted in the  regulations saying that if you have subsequently changed your plans you should adjust your next declaration to correct it and 'balance out' the declaration.

Exactly what I do.

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2 hours ago, Athy said:

But the boat's number is also taken, so the boater could be identified if necessary.

Could they!? How do they know who was piloting, purchasing, using the fuel?

 

In my 6 years living aboard I've never been asked to fill in a log book. Rarely get asked what my split is.

 

I've filled out the linked form. I look forward to the ultimate decline of diesel on boats despite being a lover of an old engine chuggin past. Be a nicer place / life when they are gone again.

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as any one been prosecuted or or other.? i think not 

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Probably because the vendor has no responsibility, other than to ensure the form is completed.

The legal liability with making the correct declaration lies solely with the buyer, hence the demand for name and address.

If I read it correctly I think that the proposed scheme will allow HMRC to chase the supplier for any under reporting rather than the purchaser as at present.

 

BTW I have replied to the consultation. I am somewhat concerned that a fixed percentage would disadvantage liveaboards, especially non cruising ones, who are more likely to be those economically less able to afford it. But I guess it is a very complex equation for such a rather small sector.

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1 minute ago, Mike Todd said:

BTW I have replied to the consultation. I am somewhat concerned that a fixed percentage would disadvantage liveaboards, especially non cruising ones, who are more likely to be those economically less able to afford it.

Surely non-cruising liveaboards don't use any fuel for propulsion so they can claim 100% domestic rebated fuel the same as they can (and by the sound of it) and many others do, now.

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I don't care what the split is so long as I can get cheap diesel.

If its more expensive at waterway fuel suppliers than supermarkets  I will just get it from the supermarket.

Edited by Loddon

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6 minutes ago, Loddon said:

I don't care what the split is so long as I can get cheap diesel.

If its more expensive at waterway fuel suppliers than supermarkets  I will just get it from the supermarket.

Eggsactly.

It is already cheaper at supermarkets than many waterside suppliers, but not sufficiently different that many CBA to make the effort to fetch it.

 

When you fetch 40 litres and its 50p per litre cheaper, its worth fetching it a couple of times a month.

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5 minutes ago, Loddon said:

I don't care what the split is so long as I can get cheap diesel.

If its more expensive at waterway fuel suppliers than supermarkets  I will just get it from the supermarket.

AND that's my issue. If fuel becomes less available or seen to be more expensive then folks will do precisely that. It can be quite a challenge to fill a boat from cans without spilling ANYTHING. Just a couple of drops will spead over a wide area. If I  filled my tank in the marina I'd be chucked out immediately

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Just now, OldGoat said:

AND that's my issue. If fuel becomes less available or seen to be more expensive then folks will do precisely that. It can be quite a challenge to fill a boat from cans without spilling ANYTHING. Just a couple of drops will spead over a wide area. If I  filled my tank in the marina I'd be chucked out immediately

The marina we are in is the same, a strict no filling from cans policy.

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3 hours ago, Loddon said:

You are kidding.

I don't know anyone that has declared 60/40 unless that is all the supplier would do, I have only once when forced to, at least the price was good as I took 900l.

Most people I know declare 100% domestic no matter what their intended use is.

Interestingly you have to declare intended use, so if your intention is to sit on your moorings and run it through your heater then circumstances change and you go boating how can you account for that?

I've declared 60/40 when given a choice because I don't agree with cheating on tax (don't like the rate? Get people to vote for change).

Edited by Thomas C King

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4 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

 

I knew what you meant but I don't think the law allows for a 100% declaration if the nearest diesel seller is some distance away from your mooring.  Can you show otherwise?

The declaration asks for home address - not the address where  the boat is moored .

 

You might have travelled 50 miles to get to the diesel but be planning to used the fresh diesel for domestic use . Is that not acceptable?

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Methinks you all do protest too much.

C&E (well the 'E' bit) is all about collecting money. The stupid diesel fuel regulation was foisted on us by the EU.

The amount recieved from inland boating is very small in the scheme of things and I guess that C&E would hope that it went away - which it will if folks do't protest and complete the quesationaire.

Very few made a fuss last time and this time....

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Other than the fact that it is nice to get things cheaper, can anyone give a realistic justification as to why leisure boaters/liveaboards should be able to get cheaper diesel than Joe Public can get for his car?

 

If Joe Public puts red diesel in his car the repercussions can be dire (like  HMRC impounding their vehicle). As someone else has pointed out the duty on fuel stopped being hypothecated for the roads many years ago (1937) and since then has just gone into the Treasury Funds. I may be wrong but I think Haulage Companies can claim back the VAT on diesel fuel for their lorries but even they have to buy white diesel so why should boaters be different? (hire companies may be able to reclaim VAT in the same fashion). Is it just because that is what we have always done even though there is no inherent logic to it??

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9 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Other than the fact that it is nice to get things cheaper, can anyone give a realistic justification as to why leisure boaters/liveaboards should be able to get cheaper diesel than Joe Public can get for his car?

 

If Joe Public puts red diesel in his car the repercussions can be dire (like  HMRC impounding their vehicle). As someone else has pointed out the duty on fuel stopped being hypothecated for the roads many years ago (1937) and since then has just gone into the Treasury Funds. I may be wrong but I think Haulage Companies can claim back the VAT on diesel fuel for their lorries but even they have to buy white diesel so why should boaters be different? (hire companies may be able to reclaim VAT in the same fashion). Is it just because that is what we have always done even though there is no inherent logic to it??

Not 'claim it back' surely? A VAT registered company deducts VAT on inputs from VAT on outputs and pays HMRC the difference. If the difference is negative it used to be possible to claim it back but most of those opportunities were removed by Ken Clark when Chancellor. (The clue is in the name: Value Added Tax)

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hawne basen wheaton aston dont mind any one using cans , all they want to do is sell the stuff.

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Fill 25 litre drums up with red at a local oil supplier and put it in the tank.  Who is going to check ? Just wondering...

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5 minutes ago, Canal321 said:

Fill 25 litre drums up with red at a local oil supplier and put it in the tank.  Who is going to check ? Just wondering...

Who do you think will be selling it when only farms can use it

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