Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble

Featured Posts

9 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I   I've seen that more than half of boaters do declare 100% domestic, so it's hardly surprising that governement/hmrc want to crack down on this. 

Really? Did the place where you saw it seem trustworthy? if so, that's (to use correctly an overworked word mentioned in another current thread) incredible. Only a long-term moored boater who went to get his diesel in cans could honestly make such a claim, and it's no wonder that the taxman becomes suspicious if others do it.

 

We always declare 20/80 and think that we're probably being fairly accurate, though of course it's impossible to calculate precisely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Athy said:

Really? Did the place where you saw it seem trustworthy? if so, that's (to use correctly an overworked word mentioned in another current thread) incredible. Only a long-term moored boater who went to get his diesel in cans could honestly make such a claim, and it's no wonder that the taxman becomes suspicious if others do it.

 

We always declare 20/80 and think that we're probably being fairly accurate, though of course it's impossible to calculate precisely.

 

The existing regulations allows a marina/mooring based liveaboard to use the boat to go and fill up and still declare 100% domestic.

 

Using the excuse "I'm just filling up" would be unlikely to be accepted if it was 100 miles away from your permanent mooring

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The existing regulations allows a marina/mooring based liveaboard to use the boat to go and fill up and still declare 100% domestic.

 

Using the excuse "I'm just filling up" would be unlikely to be accepted if it was 100 miles away from your permanent mooring

Thanks for that clarification.

I had thought that boats would be O.K. moving from mooring to pump within their marina, but had not realised that the rule applied to banksiders also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Athy said:

Thanks for that clarification.

I had thought that boats would be O.K. moving from mooring to pump within their marina, but had not realised that the rule applied to banksiders also.

It is a long time since I looked at it, but I seem to think there is a 'nearest supplier' clause.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Higgs said:

 

 

 

In the case of the EU, it's a case of the new boss (the EU) being worse than the old boss. 

 

 

There are times when your powers of reasoning are even weaker than usual.

Last time anyone checked, the UK had left the EU, so the new boss is boris.

Edited by Athy
To remove inflammatory content.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Athy said:

Really? Did the place where you saw it seem trustworthy? if so, that's (to use correctly an overworked word mentioned in another current thread) incredible. Only a long-term moored boater who went to get his diesel in cans could honestly make such a claim, and it's no wonder that the taxman becomes suspicious if others do it.

 

We always declare 20/80 and think that we're probably being fairly accurate, though of course it's impossible to calculate precisely.

Is that 20% propulsion or non propulsion...?

 

As we generally move our boat everyday when we are on it I normally declare a higher proportion for propulsion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Is that 20% propulsion or non propulsion...?

 

 

The former. I think that the propulsion percentage is usually expressed first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Athy said:

The former. I think that the propulsion percentage is usually expressed first.

EG :

60/40 is 60% propulsion and 40% 'domestic'

 

Are you saying that only 20% of the fuel you buy is used for propulsion ?

 

48 minutes ago, Athy said:

We always declare 20/80 and think that we're probably being fairly accurate, though of course it's impossible to calculate precisely.

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

There are times when your powers of reasoning are even weaker than usual.

Last time anyone checked, the UK had left the EU, so the new boss is Dominic Cummings

 

Fixed that for you ;)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

EG :

60/40 is 60% propulsion and 20% 'domestic'

 

Are you saying that only 20% of the fuel you buy is used for propulsion ?

 

 

There's no fooling our Alan.:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

EG :

60/40 is 60% propulsion and 40% 'domestic'

 

Are you saying that only 20% of the fuel you buy is used for propulsion ?

 

 

Must be a boat that doesn't move much and sit there running the engine tied up charging the batteries or using a diesel heater rather than a solid fuel stove.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Must be a boat that doesn't move much and sit there running the engine tied up charging the batteries or using a diesel heater rather than a solid fuel stove.

 

Obviously, yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, wandering snail said:

Too little...... too late .

Past campaigns have received little support.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Athy said:

Really? Did the place where you saw it seem trustworthy? if so, that's (to use correctly an overworked word mentioned in another current thread) incredible. Only a long-term moored boater who went to get his diesel in cans could honestly make such a claim, and it's no wonder that the taxman becomes suspicious if others do it.

 

We always declare 20/80 and think that we're probably being fairly accurate, though of course it's impossible to calculate precisely.

Whenever I fill in the declaration sheet, I glance down the page to see what others have declared. I'd say half declaring 100% domestic is on the low side. Most fuel boats don't even ask these days.

 

MP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Athy said:

Really? Did the place where you saw it seem trustworthy? if so, that's (to use correctly an overworked word mentioned in another current thread) incredible. Only a long-term moored boater who went to get his diesel in cans could honestly make such a claim, and it's no wonder that the taxman becomes suspicious if others do it.

 

We always declare 20/80 and think that we're probably being fairly accurate, though of course it's impossible to calculate precisely.

Some boatyards keep all the details in a big book which they ask you to sign.  It's quite easy to see what splits all the lines above on the page are signed for.  The one I'm was thinking of showed the clear majority claiming 100% domestic.

Edited by doratheexplorer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, MoominPapa said:

Whenever I fill in the declaration sheet, I glance down the page to see what others have declared. I'd say half declaring 100% domestic is on the low side. Most fuel boats don't even ask these days.

 

MP.

Probably because the vendor has no responsibility, other than to ensure the form is completed.

The legal liability with making the correct declaration lies solely with the buyer, hence the demand for name and address.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The existing regulations allows a marina/mooring based liveaboard to use the boat to go and fill up and still declare 100% domestic.

 

Using the excuse "I'm just filling up" would be unlikely to be accepted if it was 100 miles away from your permanent mooring

The example I'm thinking about sells diesel but has no moorings, so that excuse wouldn't apply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 When white diesel becomes mandatory the canals will be awash with the stuff as people start to use jerry cans  to fetch fuel from supermarket fuel stations and spill half of it in the cut. 

Retailers at the waterside on inland waterways , with a few  exceptions, will not be able to continue .

  

Edited by MartynG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Probably because the vendor has no responsibility, other than to ensure the form is completed.

The legal liability with making the correct declaration lies solely with the buyer, hence the demand for name and address.

 

Indeed. My point was simply that Athy was disbelieving that most people declare zero propulsion, but I've seen evidence that strongly suggests that's the case.

 

MP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, doratheexplorer said:

The example I'm thinking about sells diesel but has no moorings, so that excuse wouldn't apply.

Sorry, maybe I failed to make it clear.

 

It is the buyer who legally claims 100% domestic when they have a mooring (CCers cannot claim 100% domestic as by their very nature they are 'always' moving) even when they go to 'fetch it' in their boat.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Probably because the vendor has no responsibility, other than to ensure the form is completed.

The legal liability with making the correct declaration lies solely with the buyer, hence the demand for name and address.

Name and address with no request for any proof.  Again in the signing book, addresses may just say "Stoke" or "Birmingham". 

1 minute ago, MoominPapa said:

 

Indeed. My point was simply that Athy was disbelieving that most people declare zero propulsion, but I've seen evidence that strongly suggests that's the case.

 

MP.

Thanks for the back up.  Hopefully your experience will carry more weight than mine.

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Sorry, maybe I failed to make it clear.

 

It is the buyer who legally claims 100% domestic when they have a mooring (CCers cannot claim 100% domestic as by their very nature they are 'always' moving) even when they go to 'fetch it' in their boat.

 

 

I knew what you meant but I don't think the law allows for a 100% declaration if the nearest diesel seller is some distance away from your mooring.  Can you show otherwise?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, doratheexplorer said:

Name and address with no request for any proof.  Again in the signing book, addresses may just say "Stoke" or "Birmingham". 

Indeed :

 

Boat name : Noddy

Address : Big Ears House, Toytown

But, the seller is not responsible for accuracy (but obvious fabrications of names could result in suspension or removal of his licence).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

Indeed :

 

Boat name : Noddy

Address : Big Ears House, Toytown

But, the seller is not responsible for accuracy (but obvious fabrications of names could result in suspension or removal of his licence).

Which takes us back to my earlier point that boaters have probably brought this on themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Name and address with no request for any proof.  Again in the signing book, addresses may just say "Stoke" or "Birmingham". 

Thanks for the back up.  Hopefully your experience will carry more weight than mine.

 

But the boat's number is also taken, so the boater could be identified if necessary.

Yes, two similar reports carry more weight than one, of course. I am indeed very surprised: are these people mostly static liveaboards, or mostly mobile cheats? I tend to think of the boating fraternity as fundamentally honest, and to read evidence to the contrary is a shock.

 

Our nearest marina will (or would) sell only on the recommended 60/40 split. I don't know how common that is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Athy said:

I am indeed very surprised: are these people mostly static liveaboards, or mostly mobile cheats? I tend to think of the boating fraternity as fundamentally honest, and to read evidence to the contrary is a shock.

Most taxation is opportunist (What we can get away with?) as is most tax evasion. It was obvious from the circumstances of the introduction of the split rate that the government didn't really mean it. What did you expect would happen?

 

MP.

Edited by MoominPapa
  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.