How to get things seriously wrong on the Welland Canal!

[Wanderer Vagabond]

This footage has been widely circulated on the internet so may have been seen by several on here, but it is an interesting demonstration of just how 'professional' skippers can make a total horlicks of things on occasion, puts some of our slight faux pas in perspective. What fascinated me after watching it a couple of times is how a so called couple of professionals can get it so wrong. I accept that for boats of this size they are on a narrow channel, but they have hit starboard to starboard, anyone like to vote for who was to blame? My view, based solely on this camera angle, is that they are equally culpable but other opinions are available.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by Wanderer Vagabond

[BEngo]

Useful Rule of the Road messages:

 

 "Green to green and Red to red, perfect safety, go ahead."

OR

"If two lights you see in front, Full Ahead and ram the ***t"

N

[sharpness]

38 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Useful Rule of the Road messages:

 

 "Green to green and Red to red, perfect safety, go ahead."

OR

"If two lights you see in front, Full Ahead and ram the ***t"

N

Did you go to the Plymouth School of Maritime Studies?

[Tracy D'arth]

Were both on the wrong side? Which way is the flow? Which is on the outside of the bend? Was an infamous magazine contributor at either helm?

TD'

[Guest]

The skipper of Florence Spirit appears to move to pass wrong side before the collision.

 

But as always a short section of video posted on YouTube is rarely ever the full story.

 

Edit - Just Googled the sound signal and one of the vessels is sounding 'General Alarm' so perhaps the other skipper was asleep at the wheel?? As I can only here one.

Edited July 18, 2020 by The Happy Nomad

[Wanderer Vagabond]

33 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

The skipper of Florence Spirit appears to move to pass wrong side before the collision.

 

But as always a short section of video posted on YouTube is rarely ever the full story.

I would guess that one of the vessels possibly suffered steering gear failure, but then there was no reason why they could not have been in radio contact to give advance warning to the oncoming boat. The MV Alanis was travelling very slowly before the impact but Florence Spirit still seemed to be pushing a decent bow wave. Judging by the markings on the side of the boat they even have a 'girly button' so they could have pushed the bows across so that the collision would at least have been port to port.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I would guess that one of the vessels possibly suffered steering gear failure, but then there was no reason why they could not have been in radio contact to give advance warning to the oncoming boat. The MV Alanis was travelling very slowly before the impact but Florence Spirit still seemed to be pushing a decent bow wave. Judging by the markings on the side of the boat they even have a 'girly button' so they could have pushed the bows across so that the collision would at least have been port to port.

Yes I had to google that one too.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

4 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Yes I had to google that one too.

Google what? Has there already been a full collision report on it? It seems to me that the possible options would either be a steering problem, a drive problem or inattention, what would you need to Google? (what other options are there?)

Edited July 18, 2020 by Wanderer Vagabond

[magnetman]

I like the female voice wailing at the end of that clip. It's like some small children were killed.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Google what? Has there already been a full collision report on it? It seems to me that the possible options would either be a steering problem, a drive problem or inattention, what would you need to Google? (what other options are there?)

Never mind matey.

 

It is totally materless.

 

Enjoy the rest of your thread.

[magnetman]

Girly button = bow thruster. 

 

If there was a hydraulic system failure it could take out the steering and the bow thruster at the same time if they were both operated from the same power source. 

Edited July 18, 2020 by magnetman

[JJPHG]

57 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Edit - Just Googled the sound signal and one of the vessels is sounding 'General Alarm' so perhaps the other skipper was asleep at the wheel?? As I can only here one.

According to https://gcaptain.com/head-on-collision-in-great-lakes-welland-canal-caught-on-camera/ the pilots on both vessels were in contact with each other prior to the collision.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Girly button = bow thruster. 

Correct. Signified by a propellor logo on the hull side.

[magnetman]

I was thinking maybe this was the thing that failed. 

[Guest]

Just now, magnetman said:

I was thinking maybe this was the thing that failed. 

You could be correct.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

I was thinking maybe this was the thing that failed. 

If both steering and bow thruster had failed would it be wise to try and take some momentum out of the vessel by astute use of reverse? Florence Spirit still seemed to be pushing a decent bow wave. Since that seems to be the one with the most momentum (MV Alanis gets stopped by the collision) I'd hazard a guess that was the one with the control problem (if that was the cause of the collision).

[dor]

Perhaps the pilots were just playing chicken?

[DandV]

It looks like a total electrical failure on Florence Spirit just killed every control on the bridge, no steering, no engine power for reverse, no bow thrusters, nothing, not even the horn!

[mrsmelly]

7 minutes ago, DandV said:

It looks like a total electrical failure on Florence Spirit just killed every control on the bridge, no steering, no engine power for reverse, no bow thrusters, nothing, not even the horn!

From that very short you tube clip it is absolutely impossible to deduce anything whatsoever as to what happened, other than they collided.

[howardang]

52 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

From that very short you tube clip it is absolutely impossible to deduce anything whatsoever as to what happened, other than they collided.

That's the first sensible comment I have seen so far.

It is interesting how nearly everyone is eager to voice theories - a few with the backing of some knowledge but others relying on pure guesswork. Please, let's wait and see a more comprehensive report and then we can comment with a little more certainty.

 

Howard

[Guest]

2 hours ago, howardang said:

That's the first sensible comment I have seen so far.

It is interesting how nearly everyone is eager to voice theories - a few with the backing of some knowledge but others relying on pure guesswork. Please, let's wait and see a more comprehensive report and then we can comment with a little more certainty.

 

Howard

 

 

Its just a discussion on a discussion forum, no body has far as we know died or was injured so there isnt any real harm done is there?

[howardang]

For those who may not be familiar with the Welland Canal here is a short (10m) time lapse film of a trip through the canal from Lake Erie to Lake Ontario. I'm not sure where the collision occurred, but maybe a chance for an interesting discussion !?

 

 

Howard

 

 

[Dav and Pen]

The ships in the collision appeared to be sea going ones rather than lakers so they would have needed pilots. The Florence Spirit certainly seemed to move across the Chanel to port.

[DandV]

On one news  item it said the pilots were in communication with each other before the collision, which would indicate that MV Alanas had some degree of notice of the impending collision, hence perhaps the sounding of the general alarm, which was as much to warn everybody onboard of the impending collision rather then a communication with the another ship.

We have certainly had at least one occasion of a general electrical failure in one of our Cook Strait Ferries completly immobilising it when underway in confined waters. https://www.taic.org.nz/inquiry/mo-2004-216

[robtheplod]

Its like the tractor scene out of 'Footloose' only a bit bigger!