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Thoughts on this boat, anyone (2)?


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Hi,

 

I'm still on the hunt for a boat and off to view this tomorrow...  what's everyone reckon?  Based purely on the feedback here, the shell and builder (same people by the looks of it) were held in reasonable regard when they were still in business.

 

Other than the lack of solar and the inverter/charger being at the cheaper end of things, and maybe the fabrics being a bit dated (trivial point), the layout looks good and so does the rest of the equipment.

 

Great Haywood's virtual walkthrough is a great feature too.

 

https://www.greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/shop/razzle-dazzle/

 

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1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Age?  No pix of stern.

Stove heats the great outdoors where it is.

Dinette is a waste of space for me.

Well painted. Tidy.

TD'

Thanks.

 

It's 2005.  Oddly only the Apollo Duck site has a picture of the stern.

 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/severn-valley-57-traditional/641397

 

It's a one owner boat and looks well looked after.  I've spied a big box/file of with hopefully receipts and paperwork labelled 'boat' in one of the photos which is promising.

 

Paint looks well for its age.

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Looks like a nice boat and sensibly priced. Dinette turns into another bed so dual use and personally I prefer eating off a table rather than my lap.

Looks like someone cared about it and kept it in good condition.

No engine pics so check that out carefully.

You could be on to a winner but look with your head not your heart.

Good Luck.

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6 minutes ago, KenK said:

Looks like a nice boat and sensibly priced. Dinette turns into another bed so dual use and personally I prefer eating off a table rather than my lap.

Looks like someone cared about it and kept it in good condition.

No engine pics so check that out carefully.

You could be on to a winner but look with your head not your heart.

Good Luck.

Thanks.  High hopes for the engine and bilge not being a rusty wreck given the condition of it.

 

I prefer a table too and like the hatch opposite the pullman dinette.

5 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

£50k is a wee bit dear for a 15 year old  boat, I'd buy it at £44k if the hull is not scabby.

You'd have thought so, and I agree, but that seems to be the asking price for anything like that now.

 

Don't worry, if I do like it I'll not be offering close to £50k!

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3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

£50k is a wee bit dear for a 15 year old  boat, I'd buy it at £44k if the hull is not scabby.

That's nonsense, you can't value a boat based solely on age. A well made boat kept in good condition will be worth far more than a newer boat which has been neglected.

Boats like anything are worth what the buyer is prepared to pay and he will not know what that is until he has inspected the boat and possibly had a survey.

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No its not. Its what I would pay. As I said.

TD'

2 minutes ago, KenK said:

That's nonsense, you can't value a boat based solely on age. A well made boat kept in good condition will be worth far more than a newer boat which has been neglected.

Boats like anything are worth what the buyer is prepared to pay and he will not know what that is until he has inspected the boat and possibly had a survey.

You buy cars that way? There is an age as well as value and condition to be considered.

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The contract with Great Haywood is a bit draconian.

 

It doesn't matter too much what the selling price is when it comes to the survey and finding problems with the boat.  You'll only get your deposit back if it's greater than 5% of the asking price and not the selling price.

 

I agree, age isn't the be all - I'd prefer a newer boat in all honesty though - but hull and general condition trump age for me.

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8 minutes ago, KenK said:

I'd agree are they acting as a broker for the owner or do they own the boat?

 

 I assumed broker but hadn't asked.  I'll check tomorrow.

 

Those terms don't differ depending on whether they own or broker a boat though from what I can see.

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1 minute ago, NB DW said:

 I assumed broker but hadn't asked.  I'll check tomorrow.

 

Those terms don't differ depending on whether they own or broker a boat though from what I can see.

No, but it does make a big difference to your 'rights' as a buyer

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4 minutes ago, NB DW said:

Those terms don't differ depending on whether they own or broker a boat though from what I can see.

No, but your legal rights do, which is why some brokers never admit to owning the boat.

 

If you buy from a 'private individual' (via a broker) you have absolutely no rights, no come-back, no guarantee, and do not even have to be informed of any faults.

 

If the boat is owned by the broker you get full 'consumer rights' protection and a money back guarantee, and the boat must be 'fit for purpose, with every fault identified. It is now a commercial activity.

 

You can see why some brokers try to hide the status of the vessel - and most will say "this vessel is not being sold in the course of a business"

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Your problems only really start if you decide to purchase the boat and then the survey finds something wrong which is fairly minor. 

It all depends on how carefully you inspect the boat, take your time, run the engine from COLD and check for smoke. Look at the condition of the engine space, check for rust and water, there should be none. If you are not happy walk away. Check any and all systems.

If they own the boat they have to be open about any faults, same as buying a car from a garage, private sale buyer beware.

Edited by KenK
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Thanks for the info.

 

I'm guessing that'd make no difference though to getting your deposit back if the survey showed it to be crap.  If an offer were to be accepted at less than or equal to £47.5K and a survey found up to £2.5K worth of work needing doing, there'd be no return of deposit as far as my interpretation of their terms go.  Sounds lousy.  My offer would be based on the idea the boat was sound.

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Bollocks to it.  I'm going to cancel the viewing.  I can't take the stress if it were to go sour.  Looking at their terms I'd have a fight on my hands if the survey through something up - they demand to view the results, and I'd bet they'd challenge the cost of work and do what they could to wriggle.  No thanks.  I much prefer ABNB's approach.

Edited by NB DW
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1 minute ago, NB DW said:

Bollocks to it.  I'm going to cancel the viewing.  I can't take the stress if it were to go sour.  Looking at their terms I'd have a fight on my hands if the survey through something up - they demand to view the results, and I'd bet they'd challenge the cost of work and do what they could to wriggle.  No thanks.  I much prefer ABNB's approach.

Here Here. I would prefer just about any other broker, never had a problem with Whilton.

TD'

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3 minutes ago, NB DW said:

Bollocks to it.  I'm going to cancel the viewing.  I can't take the stress if it were to go sour.  Looking at their terms I'd have a fight on my hands if the survey through something up - they demand to view the results, and I'd bet they'd challenge the cost of work and do what they could to wriggle.  No thanks.  I much prefer ABNB's approach.

I would suggest you tell them why you are canceling the viewing 

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Absolutely will.  I doubt I'm much loss to them though and a 1 man stand won't be enough for them to consider a change.  They'll probably think I'm a nutter.

 

Their boats hang around 100x longer than anything with ABNB or Rugby Boats and the like.  I guess now I know why.

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8 minutes ago, NB DW said:

Bollocks to it.  I'm going to cancel the viewing.  I can't take the stress if it were to go sour.  Looking at their terms I'd have a fight on my hands if the survey through something up - they demand to view the results, and I'd bet they'd challenge the cost of work and do what they could to wriggle.  No thanks.  I much prefer ABNB's approach.

These terms are the standard terms that all marinas who are member of the BMF adhere to. you will struggle to find a marina who does not operate those 'rules' :

 

Less than 5% and if you pull out you lose your deposit :

 

 

SPONSORED BY THE BRITISH MARINE FEDERATION IN CONSULTATION WITH THE ROYAL YACHTING ASSOCIATION

 

THIS DOCUMENT IS INTENDED FOR USE BY BMF MEMBERS ONLY. THE USE OF THIS DOCUMENT DOES NOT CONSTITUTE PROOF OF MEMBERSHIP OF THE BMF. TO CHECK THAT YOU ARE DEALING WITH A BMF MEMBER PLEASE CONTACT THE BMF MEMBERSHIP DEPARTMENT ON 01784 473377/ www.britishmarine.co.uk

 

THIS DOCUMENT IS INTENDED TO CREATE A LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT;

IF YOU ARE UNSURE AS TO THE EFFECT OF ANY OF THE PROVISIONS YOU ARE ADVISED TO TAKE APPROPRIATE PROFESSIONAL ADVICE

 

 

1.      Defects

1.1. If the inspection, survey or sea trial reveals any major defects in the Vessel, its machinery, gear or equipment which affects the operational integrity of the Vessel or her systems or renders her unseaworthy, and such defect was not disclosed to the Purchaser in writing prior to the signing of this Agreement, or if there are any deficiencies in the inventory prepared and attached to this Agreement, for which the aggregate cost of rectification by a competent and reputable shipyard or replacements (on a like for like basis, discounted to second hand prices) is collectively equal to or exceeds 5 % of the Purchase Price then the Purchaser may give written notice to the Seller or the Broker within 7 days of completion of the inspection, survey and sea trial, whichever is the later, specifying the defects and/or deficiencies and including a copy of all relevant extracts from a surveyor’s or adviser’s report, and either:

1.1.1. reject the Vessel, or

1.1.2. require the Seller to make good the defects and/or deficiencies or make a sufficient reduction in the Purchase Price to enable the Purchaser to do so.  In this case all agreed items of work shall be completed without undue delay and shall be carried out to the express requirements contained in the Notice served by the Purchaser.

For the purposes of this Clause 5.1 and Clause 5.1.2 "completion of survey" shall mean the date of receipt by the Purchaser of a written or emailed survey report.

1.2. If the Purchaser serves notice under Clause 5.1.1, or Clause 5.1.2, and; 

1.2.1. the Seller fails within 21 days after service of the notice to agree to make good the defects or deficiencies specified in the notice without unreasonable delay or; 

1.2.2. the parties shall not have agreed within 14 days after service of the notice upon the amount by which the Purchase Price is to be reduced

THEN this Agreement shall be rescinded and the Deposit paid shall be refunded to the Purchaser in accordance with Clause 8.

1.3. In the case of any deficiencies in the Vessel’s inventory remaining or arising within 7 days of Acceptance the deficiencies shall be made good by the Seller or the Purchase Price shall be reduced by a sum agreed between the Parties which should reflect the reasonable cost of replacement of such items with second hand items of similar specification.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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