Generator Etiquette

[The Welsh Cruiser]

25 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

True and to be fair my boat engine with the hospital silencer exhausting a few inches above the water is way quieter than any petrol gennie, even the super quiet Hondas. I also think its more the pitch of the petrol gennie that seems to irirtate?

That's down to personal taste. A quietish genny doesn't bother me at all whereas even a quiet diesel boat engine running 50 yards away drives me nuts. I think it's the low pitch that gets to me. The very worst thing is music when you can only hear the bass. Boom boom boom boom booom (3 second break) then the pattern repeated endlessly. If I were required to be tortured this would have me spitting out everything I knew within minutes. Please don't tell the authorities this. 

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

That's down to personal taste. A quietish genny doesn't bother me at all whereas even a quiet diesel boat engine running 50 yards away drives me nuts. I think it's the low pitch that gets to me. The very worst thing is music when you can only hear the bass. Boom boom boom boom booom (3 second break) then the pattern repeated endlessly. If I were required to be tortured this would have me spitting out everything I knew within minutes. Please don't tell the authorities this. 

Your probably correct old bean. There is nowt more annoying than the sound of some old knacker engined boat passing with the thump thump thump noise!!

[Thomas C King]

4 minutes ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

Boom boom boom boom booom (3 second break)

Surprised the Vengaboys are so popular.

[peterboat]

On 17/07/2020 at 17:06, Dr Bob said:

Charging for 9 hours a day is just crazy. No wonder you were asked to turn it off. I dont think I have ever heard of anyone running a genny that much.

Why on earth have you only 100Ahrs of Lithiums. If you can afford a lithium then you could afford 4 or 5 110Ahr lead acids and a victron 30A charger that would would all be far cheaper - and that would only need 2-3 hours a day in running. Probably pay back itself in less than 12 months in petrol savings.

Sort out your batteries and charging strategies. If you are not moving then solar is the only way to go for 2/3rds of the year.

Or solar panels peace quiet and tranquility 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

That's down to personal taste.

 

The very worst thing is music when you can only hear the bass. Boom boom boom boom booom (3 second break) then the pattern repeated endlessly.

Definitely personal taste then, as that's one of my favourite sounds. Although it's nice to be able to hear the higher notes as well. 

[The Welsh Cruiser]

5 minutes ago, Rumsky said:

Definitely personal taste then, as that's one of my favourite sounds. Although it's nice to be able to hear the higher notes as well. 

I don't mind having a bit of bass in my music. My time and choice and I keep it to myself with headphones. Any boat that moors near me and starts booming out bass gets a sharp knock on the window and polite request to turn it down.

[Bod]

2 hours ago, Thomas C King said:

It's just the requirements of our employers, they want people to occasionally come into the office, and then when things open up again be fully available. We're moving closer for that reason. It needs to be over weekends so that we can hop to places with decent internet access for meetings etc. (it's not just the strength of the signal, there are other factors).

 

The alternator is being limited far below 30amps by a controller meant for lead-acid batteries (not installed by me, I kept it thinking it'd keep the alternator well within operating range given that I thought the genny was more sociable). I don't know to what exactly, but I'll take a look and try 25 amps and then 50 if it handles it.

How are you measuring Amps?

Exactly which alternator is fitted to the engine?  Photographs of the alternator, and the "controller" will help greatly, because a sub 30 amp output just does not sound right.

 

Bod.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Bod said:

How are you measuring Amps?

Exactly which alternator is fitted to the engine?  Photographs of the alternator, and the "controller" will help greatly, because a sub 30 amp output just does not sound right.

 

Bod.

Maybe someone has 'played about' with the alternator and introduced a 'controller' trying to adapt it to charging Lithium (so as not to overcharge).

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

I don't mind having a bit of bass in my music. My time and choice and I keep it to myself with headphones. Any boat that moors near me and starts booming out bass gets a sharp knock on the window and polite request to turn it down.

Moored at Westport Lake in Stoke on Friday night, boom boom boom... Boom boom boom... Then a weird droning noise on top which my wife couldn't hear but drove me bonkers.

Turned out to be a Scots pipe band have a bit if a bash beside the ice cream van in the kids playground.

[Thomas C King]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Maybe someone has 'played about' with the alternator and introduced a 'controller' trying to adapt it to charging Lithium (so as not to overcharge).

It's fun to speculate, but maybe no. There's a Victron BMS 12/200 to prevent overcharging.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Thomas C King said:

It's fun to speculate, but maybe no. There's a Victron BMS 12/200 to prevent overcharging.

How does the BMS limit the charging to 7 amps ?

[Col_T]

Victron documentation says that the fuse on a specified input post doubles up as a shunt so that the BMS can limit the input current. In case I've mis-read / mis-understood, here is the link. https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-BMS-12-200-EN-NL-FR-ES-DE.pdf

 

The above suggests there is no fuse combination that will limit the input as low as 7 amps, so it may be the device designed for lead acids that is doing the limiting. Maybe it's time for the OP to get rid of that?

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Col_T said:

The above suggests there is no fuse combination that will limit the input as low as 7 amps, so it may be the device designed for lead acids that is doing the limiting. Maybe it's time for the OP to get rid of that?

 

Hence my question - the OPs information is just not 'stacking up', the only way he can be charging at 7amps is by using the generators 12v output, if using the Victron, the minimum (according to Victron) is 12 amps.

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, Bod said:

How are you measuring Amps?

Exactly which alternator is fitted to the engine?  Photographs of the alternator, and the "controller" will help greatly, because a sub 30 amp output just does not sound right.

 

Bod.

And is one of the reasons for fitting Lithiums, so you can fill them up quickly

47 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

How does the BMS limit the charging to 7 amps ?

Maybe they are full and he doesnt know it

[Thomas C King]

39 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Hence my question - the OPs information is just not 'stacking up', the only way he can be charging at 7amps is by using the generators 12v output, if using the Victron, the minimum (according to Victron) is 12 amps.

That's obviously not true, there are many ways you can limit charging to 7amps. To go over it again... there is a BMS 12/200, it regulates overcharging, and the alternator charges the batteries through the BMS 12/200, and a controller designed for lead acid batteries. The controller will be removed. There is - also - a generator, which powers the 230v system when the inverter is off. Connected to the 230v system there is a charger. The charger is a 7amp one.

 

Alternator -> alternator controller -> BMS 12/200 -> LiFePO4.

Generator -> 230v system -> 7amp charger -> LiFePO4.

[Alan de Enfield]

53 minutes ago, Thomas C King said:

That's obviously not true, there are many ways you can limit charging to 7amps. To go over it again... there is a BMS 12/200, it regulates overcharging, and the alternator charges the batteries through the BMS 12/200, and a controller designed for lead acid batteries. The controller will be removed. There is - also - a generator, which powers the 230v system when the inverter is off. Connected to the 230v system there is a charger. The charger is a 7amp one.

 

Alternator -> alternator controller -> BMS 12/200 -> LiFePO4.

Generator -> 230v system -> 7amp charger -> LiFePO4.

 

OK you said that you were charging at 7 amps, then subsequently said that the BMS was preventing overcharging, at no point did you suggest you had a 7 amp (230v) charger powered by the Generator that was no being controlled by the BMS.

 

I'll leave you to it.

[peterboat]

On 16/07/2020 at 13:37, Thomas C King said:

No, but we only have a 7amp charger for a 100amp LiFePo4 battery. I'll see if we can get something bigger for a 2200W generator.

 

We decided to buy a generator over solar for now, because solar won't cover us in Winter. How do people work in Winter without making noise? Fair enough if it drives people nuts, we'll try to keep away from people for now. I didn't think it a problem because quite a few other boats seem to do it.

 

Your mistake was buying the gennie! The money saved not buying petrol would have bought loads of solar for the winter. I use solar for whole year around the LifePo4s batteries love it, fast to charge and regulates great 

Edited July 19, 2020 by peterboat

[Thomas C King]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

at no point did you suggest you had a 7 amp (230v) charger powered by the Generator that was no being controlled by the BMS.

 

I'll leave you to it.

Earlier, in response to you asking why it's on for 9 hours a day:

Quote

No, but we only have a 7amp charger for a 100amp LiFePo4 battery. I'll see if we can get something bigger for a 2200W generator.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but can see how this forum has the reputation that it does (not because of you specifically, obviously). I found it frustrating facing imaginings about how the boat is moored, the idea that a 12v output was being used instead of the charger as I described, etc. It's better to ask questions or step away sooner.

22 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Your mistake was buying the gennie! The money saved not buying petrol would have bought loads of solar for the winter. I use solar for whole year around the LifePo4s batteries love it, fast to charge and regulates great 

That's promising to hear. We haven't spent that much on petrol yet. So far we're spending about the same on energy as when we lived in a flat. Solar has always been in our plans, but there has been financial uncertainty and issues around getting someone to install it.

[Dr Bob]

2 hours ago, Thomas C King said:

That's obviously not true, there are many ways you can limit charging to 7amps. To go over it again... there is a BMS 12/200, it regulates overcharging, and the alternator charges the batteries through the BMS 12/200, and a controller designed for lead acid batteries. The controller will be removed. There is - also - a generator, which powers the 230v system when the inverter is off. Connected to the 230v system there is a charger. The charger is a 7amp one.

 

Alternator -> alternator controller -> BMS 12/200 -> LiFePO4.

Generator -> 230v system -> 7amp charger -> LiFePO4.

The whole idea of using Lifepo4's is to limit the time taken charging. Instead, you seem to have made a real hash of this and need to charge 5 times longer!

You really need to rethink your charging system and if you are not capable of doing that, you should go back to lead acids.

There are loads of peeps on here who can help you get your LifePo4 charging better.

What lithium battery do you have? Is it a drop in 12V type? Does it have its own BMS? I think you have been given some duff info if you have to charge for 9 hours a day to charge lithiums.

What is the charge controller designed for lead acids?

First step might be to buy a decent charger with a Lifepo4 setting...ie the victron IP22 30A charger.

Do you have a BMV battery monitor? If not can you monitor Amps out? How do you monitor voltage. If not you are at serious risk of knackering your battery.

 

[roland elsdon]

9 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Your probably correct old bean. There is nowt more annoying than the sound of some old knacker engined boat passing with the thump thump thump noise!!

Ours is so much noisier since the rebuild.

As Clarkson used to remark ‘power’

[RufusR]

We have the same gen as op and I hate to run it so it’s for back up only , answer is solar and lots of it so much in fact that it will carry you most of the year . Can be done similar price to honda 22eui gen . ,decent batteries and large good solar array and you will not need to run gen except in exceptional circumstance in dead of winter when few other s about. If still worried about those few times get wind ..

 

 

 

[Chewbacka]

1 hour ago, RufusR said:

We have the same gen as op and I hate to run it so it’s for back up only , answer is solar and lots of it so much in fact that it will carry you most of the year . Can be done similar price to honda 22eui gen . ,decent batteries and large good solar array and you will not need to run gen except in exceptional circumstance in dead of winter when few other s about. If still worried about those few times get wind ..

 

 

 

You mean like eating lots of beans and eggs so no one will moor next to you so then you can run the gennie without upsetting anyone???

[magnetman]

On 16/07/2020 at 13:24, Thomas C King said:

I have a question on generator etiquette, would you normally not run it at all if you are parked within say, ten metres of other boats? We recently re-moored a short distance from our prior mooring so that we could get a usable internet connection for work. We just had a boat neighbor knock asking us to turn our generator off, which we did.

 

We run it from about 0800 to 1700. It's a Honda EU22i and for me I never expected it to be a problem because after a few metres it just creates a gentle hum. I can see a few general options:

 

1) Never run the generator near moored boats (and in our case, never moor near boats because this would mean we couldn't work). I suppose we could moor near boats that also run generators.

2) Ask if it's okay to run the generator. I asked a fisherman recently and he was fine with it. On the other hand, someone might politely say it's fine and yet it really bothers them. Or some people might just not want you to talk to them.

3) Run the generator until someone complains. If it's only a minority that would take issue with it, then I can see this as being an option, but I don't like it...

 

Thoughts?

It is generally considered rude to run a generator close to other boats especially if you have arrived there when they were already moored there and possibly exhibiting signs of enjoying the pleasant weather and surroundings . 

 

Just don't do it

[johnmck]

Reminds me of a chap we met on the Macc. "Don't moor here mate .

Watching TV at 10 PM when all of a sudden, the lights went out."

 

Someone had chucked his genny in the cut.

 

Vandals he said.

Peed off boater said we.?