Generator Etiquette

[cuthound]

16 hours ago, magnetman said:

Listening to other people's infernal combustion engines while their boats are stationary is the worst thing about living on a boat that I have ever encountered. In 25 years living on boats off grid and on grid.

 

Loud music is bad as well but why the hell do people without a mains power connection need to use so much power? Surely if you wanted that much electric you would arrange your life around systems which provided electricity without requiring other people to suffer the noise. 

 

I suppose it's a cost benefit analysis and at some point other people's comfort becomes irrelevant..

 

 

 

 

 

I like my music loud. That is why I listen to it on earphones when it might upset others, such as when on the boat or late at night when at home.

 

My pet hate is people who listen to loud music whilst travelling on the boat. Why,?They cant hear their music properly and they annoy everyone else. 

[Rob-M]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

I like my music loud. That is why I listen to it on earphones when it might upset others, such as when on the boat or late at night when at home.

 

My pet hate is people who listen to loud music whilst travelling on the boat. Why,?They cant hear their music properly and they annoy everyone else. 

Someone came past us last week with music blaring from the bows so they could here it steering.

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

I like my music loud. That is why I listen to it on earphones when it might upset others, such as when on the boat or late at night when at home.

 

My pet hate is people who listen to loud music whilst travelling on the boat. Why,?They cant hear their music properly and they annoy everyone else. 

There was a woman came past yours the other day with the radio blearing out, we could still hear it well after she passed 

[Dr Bob]

Charging for 9 hours a day is just crazy. No wonder you were asked to turn it off. I dont think I have ever heard of anyone running a genny that much.

Why on earth have you only 100Ahrs of Lithiums. If you can afford a lithium then you could afford 4 or 5 110Ahr lead acids and a victron 30A charger that would would all be far cheaper - and that would only need 2-3 hours a day in running. Probably pay back itself in less than 12 months in petrol savings.

Sort out your batteries and charging strategies. If you are not moving then solar is the only way to go for 2/3rds of the year.

[ditchcrawler]

On 16/07/2020 at 14:44, Thomas C King said:

Thanks all. Seems like in the short term we should get better antennae for our mobile broadband hub, so that we can moor further away from people, and/or get a solar panel. And in Winter it's apparently easier anyway. Alternatively, maybe some day we'll be allowed back in our offices.

I was in the middle of nowhere on the Ashby canal last week and this was the speed I was getting with a dongle hung in the pigeon box

 

[blackrose]

On 16/07/2020 at 14:02, Thomas C King said:

Even in this case, I'm still none the wiser how people are getting electricity in Winter. Unless running an engine is the thing to do, even though it's louder?

 

Yes, apparently a loud engine is more acceptable than a quieter generator. I don't get it either but that's what some people on this forum seem to think. That shows it's the object itself they object to rather than simply the noise it makes. 

On 16/07/2020 at 14:01, doratheexplorer said:

People get funny about generators.  I have one but I only use it regularly in winter.  From end of feb to end of October-ish it gets used roughly once a week to run my washing machine.  Never had anyone complain.  Running one all day is excessive.  Sort out your charging and battery situation.

 

And your power consumption. That's the bit a lot of people forget about. Reducing consumption is key.

Edited July 17, 2020 by blackrose

[matty40s]

21 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes, apparently a loud engine is more acceptable than a quieter generator. I don't get it either but that's what some people on this forum seem to think. That shows it's the object itself they object to rather than simply the noise it makes. 

If you go back to the OP, ..its running a genny for at least 9 hours a day is the issue.

 

 

[Dr Bob]

On 16/07/2020 at 14:02, Thomas C King said:

Even in this case, I'm still none the wiser how people are getting electricity in Winter. Unless running an engine is the thing to do, even though it's louder?

You are charging at 7A and only have 100Ahrs capacity. Very likely you are using 7A at times so are having to run the genny ALL the time. That is not the way to do it.

First get a bigger battery bank. 200Ahrs of Lithiums or more of lead acids, then get a bigger charger so you reduce your charger running time. If you run the engine then the alternator will be putting out significantly more than 7A ....and more likely 50A plus into Lithiums. A 30 A charger from Victron is only £150 ish and will reduce your genny running by over 75%.

Even with your current 100Ahrs battery, you could charge via your engine and put in the same power in an hour or two that your genny puts in in 9 hours.

Why aren't you running your engine for a couple of hours rather than 9 hours of genny?

[The Welsh Cruiser]

Re. size of battery bank. I've had 3 sets of 2 x 110AH all of which I wrecked through not understanding their charging requirements. Now I have a single 105AH Trojan. This is perfect, I do not need more than this. Reason being that my power usage is in the region of 30AH/ day and I have 375w of solar. Required engine charging is maybe an average of 2 hours a day in darkest winter, 1 hour a day in November and February. None at all outside these months.

 

Before getting huge battery banks it's worth doing a power audit to establish usage. Having a bigger bank than you need is not only a waste of money, it also doubles, trebles or whatever the sheer pain of moving awkward and heavy batteries in and out of usually tight spaces, re-doing connections that might be difficult to access or even see at all etc. etc.

[Dr Bob]

9 minutes ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

Re. size of battery bank. I've had 3 sets of 2 x 110AH all of which I wrecked through not understanding their charging requirements. Now I have a single 105AH Trojan. This is perfect, I do not need more than this. Reason being that my power usage is in the region of 30AH/ day and I have 375w of solar. Required engine charging is maybe an average of 2 hours a day in darkest winter, 1 hour a day in November and February. None at all outside these months.

 

Before getting huge battery banks it's worth doing a power audit to establish usage. Having a bigger bank than you need is not only a waste of money, it also doubles, trebles or whatever the sheer pain of moving awkward and heavy batteries in and out of usually tight spaces, re-doing connections that might be difficult to access or even see at all etc. etc.

The OPs biggest problem is he is only charging at 7A. Just charging via his engine would mean a couple of hours a day engine running. 

[LadyG]

On 16/07/2020 at 17:29, Victor Vectis said:

Oh dear.

 

Advice from a Youtuber.

 

?

Jono has a strong background in electronics and is very tech savvy, he used to work for the Beeb, now does some things for Victron. He understands lithium!

I am new to cruising, but am astounded to see so many liveaboards who don't have solar, it's a no brainer, as is a autonomy for three to five days, else you are a slave to your boat ........

PS I have learnt a massive amount about boat electrics from lectures on youtube (Pacific Yacht Systems). There are lots of youtube channels, most are entertainment, some are educational.

Edited July 18, 2020 by LadyG

[roland elsdon]

We dont live on our boat but have solar.

It means we can leave the boat and go home while leaving the fridge on.

That means we can cycle to where the boat is without having to carry empty the fridge. So one way its dirty clothes , the other clean clothes and some food.

( Apart from today when it was the above plus paint and ironmongery, to complete the work we had done with the powertools  before we left. Having left the boat 48 hrs with low batteries after cutting drilling and grinding, the batteries are fully charged.

Now we are 2 boats away from the usual brm brm brm of someone using his engine to put bugger all in the batteries as it idles away. Strangely moored here when we left.

[LadyG]

9 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

The OPs biggest problem is he is only charging at 7A. Just charging via his engine would mean a couple of hours a day engine running. 

Just so, at the moment he might be better in a marina, on shorepower. Assuming he is being paid to work from home, this should be covered by his salary, trying to work frull time on a boat requires a bit more thought than just running a generator 12 hours a day with a charger designed for a car!

Edited July 18, 2020 by LadyG

[LadyG]

9 hours ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

Re. size of battery bank. I've had 3 sets of 2 x 110AH all of which I wrecked through not understanding their charging requirements. Now I have a single 105AH Trojan. This is perfect, I do not need more than this. Reason being that my power usage is in the region of 30AH/ day and I have 375w of solar. Required engine charging is maybe an average of 2 hours a day in darkest winter, 1 hour a day in November and February. None at all outside these months.

 

Before getting huge battery banks it's worth doing a power audit to establish usage. Having a bigger bank than you need is not only a waste of money, it also doubles, trebles or whatever the sheer pain of moving awkward and heavy batteries in and out of usually tight spaces, re-doing connections that might be difficult to access or even see at all etc. etc.

You only have to install your batteries every five to ten years if youlook after them.

My idea is to have plenty of capacity in my leisure batteries, so that they never fall below 50 percent, so they don't cycle excessively. Tthe solar keeps them topped up nearly every day, this is summer, and I realise that it will not be so easy in winter. Since solar was installed, I have only run the engine for a few hours to top batteries after a week of cloudy weather plus a reliance on Webasto. Pre solar, I once had to run my engine for seven hours .     ......not a good plan

Edited July 18, 2020 by LadyG

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Jono has a strong background in electronics and is very tech savvy, he used to work for the Beeb, now does some things for Victron. He understands lithium!

I am new to cruising, but am astounded to see so many liveaboards who don't have solar, it's a no brainer, as is a autonomy for three to five days, else you are a slave to your boat ........

PS I have learnt a massive amount about boat electrics from lectures on youtube (Pacific Yacht Systems). There are lots of youtube channels, most are entertainment, some are educational.

If you looked at the comments section long enough, I'm sure you'd also find:

Oh dear. 

Advice from a forum. 

[Alan de Enfield]

10 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

The OPs biggest problem is he is only charging at 7A. Just charging via his engine would mean a couple of hours a day engine running. 

I'd hazard a guess that the OP is using the generator 12v 7amp output thinking that is a battery charger, instead of buying a 50amp battery charger and running that from the 230 generator output,

 

@Thomas C King is that what you are doing ?

[ditchcrawler]

19 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes, apparently a loud engine is more acceptable than a quieter generator. I don't get it either but that's what some people on this forum seem to think. That shows it's the object itself they object to rather than simply the noise it makes. 

 

And your power consumption. That's the bit a lot of people forget about. Reducing consumption is key.

Not if that loud engine is running for 9 hours. If you only have 100Ah of batteries and charge at 8 amp you would need to reduce consumption to almost zero.

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Rumsky said:

If you looked at the comments section long enough, I'm sure you'd also find:

Oh dear. 

Advice from a forum. 

But not if that was a respected senior member

[Thomas C King]

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

Just so, at the moment he might be better in a marina, on shorepower. Assuming he is being paid to work from home, this should be covered by his salary, trying to work frull time on a boat requires a bit more thought than just running a generator 12 hours a day with a charger designed for a car!

Not sure my life is that interesting, but responding to this to dispel a few too many assumptions a few too many have had.

 

The intention, originally, was to commute to work from a boat and hence not have significant power requirements. Unfortunately, the pandemic happened. We had already given our tenancy notice at that point, and finding another flat was for us and, as reported, many other people not feasible. So we moved onto a boat, which was a financially good idea anyway, and stayed for quite some time in the marina where we had bought it. This was quite far from our workplaces, but it was fine because we could work from home. Fast forward to now, where there is pressure on us to move closer to our offices, hence why we are no longer in the marina and are moving towards our workplaces.

 

So why not buy solar and a bigger battery bank etc. ? Also owing to the pandemic myself and all of my colleagues have had a 20% pay cut (whilst not being furloughed) to save the company for the past few months. Hence the use of our generator, which I can barely hear, and because it's inaudible to us hence questions around whether they generally bother other people.

 

A bigger battery charger seems a reasonable next step after mooring away from people (and no, we're not just charging directly from the generator...).

Edited July 18, 2020 by Thomas C King

[Dr Bob]

18 minutes ago, Thomas C King said:

Not sure my life is that interesting, but responding to this to dispel a few too many assumptions a few too many have had.

 

The intention, originally, was to commute to work from a boat and hence not have significant power requirements. Unfortunately, the pandemic happened. We had already given our tenancy notice at that point, and finding another flat was for us and, as reported, many other people not feasible. So we moved onto a boat, which was a financially good idea anyway, and stayed for quite some time in the marina where we had bought it. This was quite far from our workplaces, but it was fine because we could work from home. Fast forward to now, where there is pressure on us to move closer to our offices, hence why we are no longer in the marina and are moving towards our workplaces.

 

So why not buy solar and a bigger battery bank etc. ? Also owing to the pandemic myself and all of my colleagues have had a 20% pay cut (whilst not being furloughed) to save the company for the past few months. Hence the use of our generator, which I can barely hear, and because it's inaudible to us hence questions around whether they generally bother other people.

 

A bigger battery charger seems a reasonable next step after mooring away from people (and no, we're not just charging directly from the generator...).

No, a bigger charger is number 1. If you just get more batteries then you will still be charging for 10 hours per day.  Get at least a 30A charger. It will be far far cheaper than more batteries.

[LadyG]

Sorry, still struggling to understand, I know it is a bit off your query, but if you are working from home why do you need to be near the office.

If you are moving closer , then the engine running for two hours per day would get youcloser, and give you maybe 30 to 50 amphours , ie enough to power a laptop assuming your battery is in decent condition, ie leisure type and holding charge. There is a battery primer on here which would help you to manage your power.

I suggest you could turn off the fridge if you are using one, and manage without until you get sorted. Personally, I would not want the hassle with a generator, which is a safety hazard, an insurance hazard, and a complete pia, and it is neither free to run, or to purchase.

Edited July 19, 2020 by LadyG

[roland elsdon]

Walked in to harborough last night. Half way down main street pop up icecream stall. Generator bellowing away to power it. 15 feet from shops and mains supplied structures.

All local stupid ugly vehicles dutifully stop starting to allow them to dodge road tax levies, on oversized lumps.

 

Sure any ‘profits’ made by business swallowed by fuel costs while locals brains impacted by needless pollution. 

Not well thought through.

[ditchcrawler]

11 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

No, a bigger charger is number 1. If you just get more batteries then you will still be charging for 10 hours per day.  Get at least a 30A charger. It will be far far cheaper than more batteries.

And being Lithium you will refill it in 3 hours from empty.

6 hours ago, LadyG said:

Sorry, still struggling to understand, I know it is a bit off your query, but if you are working from home why do you need to be near the office.

If you are moving closer , then the engine running for two hours per day would get youcloser, and give you maybe 30 to 50 amphours , ie enough to power a laptop assuming your battery is in decent condition, ie leisure type and holding charge. There is a battery primer on here which would help you to manage your power.

I suggest you could turn off the fridge if you are using one, and manage without until you get sorted. Personally, I would not want the hassle with a generator, which is a safety hazard, an insurance hazard, and a complete pia, and it is neither free to run, or to purchase.

2 hours on the engine would probably do a lot more than the genny all day and again the Lithium helps as it can be left part charged, so and houre in the moring and maybe about the same late afternoon short sort it with ease, 2 lts of diesel and job done

[mrsmelly]

On 18/07/2020 at 00:06, matty40s said:

If you go back to the OP, ..its running a genny for at least 9 hours a day is the issue.

 

 

True and to be fair my boat engine with the hospital silencer exhausting a few inches above the water is way quieter than any petrol gennie, even the super quiet Hondas. I also think its more the pitch of the petrol gennie that seems to irirtate?

[Thomas C King]

6 hours ago, LadyG said:

Sorry, still struggling to understand, I know it is a bit off your query, but if you are working from home why do you need to be near the office.

If you are moving closer , then the engine running for two hours per day would get youcloser, and give you maybe 30 to 50 amphours , ie enough to power a laptop assuming your battery is in decent condition, ie leisure type and holding charge. There is a battery primer on here which would help you to manage your power.

I suggest you could turn off the fridge if you are using one, and manage without until you get sorted. Personally, I would not want the hassle with a generator, which is a safety hazard, an insurance hazard, and a complete pia, and it is neither free to run, or to purchase.

It's just the requirements of our employers, they want people to occasionally come into the office, and then when things open up again be fully available. We're moving closer for that reason. It needs to be over weekends so that we can hop to places with decent internet access for meetings etc. (it's not just the strength of the signal, there are other factors).

 

The alternator is being limited far below 30amps by a controller meant for lead-acid batteries (not installed by me, I kept it thinking it'd keep the alternator well within operating range given that I thought the genny was more sociable). I don't know to what exactly, but I'll take a look and try 25 amps and then 50 if it handles it.