new VAT & Marina fees

[Glynn]

Will marina fee's now be vat at 5% like camp sites etc will be ?, since most of them are 'leisure facilities".

[TheBiscuits]

 

Not unless HMRC change their minds.  Leisure Marinas and Boat Hire are specifically excluded from the VAT decrease.

[Jerra]

As marinas aren't any of the following they aren't in the scheme.

 

VAT: reduced rate for hospitality, holiday accommodation and attractions

 

[Glynn]

"Eat-in or hot takeaway food from restaurants, cafes and pubs; accommodation in hotels, B&Bs, campsites and caravan sites; attractions like cinemas, theme parks and zoos; all these and more will see VAT reduced, from next Wednesday [July 15] until January 12, from 20 per cent to five per cent."

[Dyertribe]

Even if they were, there is no certainty that those savings would be passed on to the users. It appears that lots of businesses are keeping the prices the same and pocketing a larger amount.

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, Jerra said:

As marinas aren't any of the following they aren't in the scheme.

 

VAT: reduced rate for hospitality, holiday accommodation and attractions

 

 

On the other hand (taken from the other thread on the same subject)

Tent ('temporary moorings') pitches, Touring caravan ( 'temporary moorings') and 'Mobile homes' (static caravans with permanent moorings) all appear to be covered.

 

If Camping site-fees are included, why are boat moorings not ?

 

The .Gov website states :

6.1 Camping

If you provide a pitch for a tent or holiday accommodation in a tent (see paragraph 5.1), your supply is standard rated (or temporarily reduced rated). The supply of any associated facilities is also temporarily reduced rated in the relevant period if part of a single supply.

There is no reduced value rule (see section 3) for tents or pitches for tents.

6.2 Caravans (including mobile homes, park homes and static caravans)

If you provide holiday accommodation (see paragraph 5.1) in any type of caravan already sited on a pitch, your supply is standard rated or temporarily reduced rated. For VAT purposes, the term ‘caravan’ includes mobile homes, park homes, touring caravans and static caravans.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[Jerra]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

On the other hand (taken from the other thread on the same subject)

Tents ('temporary mooring' pitches, Touring caravan ( 'temporary moorings') and 'Mobile homes' (static caravans with permanent moorings) all appear to be covered.

 

If Camping site-fees are included, why are boat moorings not ?

You had better ask our wonderful so on the ball government why they don't include them.  Probably the same reason as they don't include hire boats.

[Machpoint005]

HMRC specifically excluded marina fees in its notice yesterday (14 July). I have always (during 31 years of business) found the VAT office) to be right on the ball with rules, regulations and guidance.

 

So no, the VAT rate will not be 5%.

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Jerra said:

You had better ask our wonderful so on the ball government why they don't include them.  Probably the same reason as they don't include hire boats.

 

Government completely missed the detail, HMRC picked the ball up. As usual.

 

 

[Athy]

I thought that take-away food was exempt from V.A.T. Not so?

[Detling]

This government seems particularily 'anti boat owner'  they mentioned second homes and boats, they did not mention mobile homes, static caravans, and motorhome in the same way they were just lumped in the' other' catagory. As cleaners and nanny's were the first to be released, and now we have outdoor entertainment, in time for Glynbourne Festival you get some idea of who influences this government and they distinctly don't like boats for some reason. They hate anything Europe even more even when it is better than anything they have, look at the PPE shambles and now the enormous amount of money being spent trying to to aquire a 'GPS' alternative rather than pay (almost certainly less long term) to allow us to use the European sytem we paid for, built and works. Jury is still out on criminal record cooperation.

[john6767]

18 minutes ago, Athy said:

I thought that take-away food was exempt from V.A.T. Not so?

Cold take away food has no VAT, hot take away food has VAT.

[Alan de Enfield]

28 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

HMRC specifically excluded marina fees in its notice yesterday (14 July). I have always (during 31 years of business) found the VAT office) to be right on the ball with rules, regulations and guidance.

 

So no, the VAT rate will not be 5%.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Government completely missed the detail, HMRC picked the ball up. As usual.

 

 

 

I cannot find any statement from HMRC dated 14th July, there is the "Guidance on temporary VAT" but that was dated 8th July and from what I can see makes no mention of boats or marinas, or mooring fees.

The only 'boaty' statement I can see is that houseboats (defined as a boat without an engine) is subject to the reduced VAT

 

Could you possibly provide a link.

 

Are you confusing the British Marine statement dated 14th July ?

Edited July 15, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[plainsman]

Just to let you know I have written to my MP pointing out the injustice. That is marinas were classed as holiday accomodation when the restrictions were imposed but not so for reduced VAT. Another inconsistency in govt management of Covid crisis. Not sure what good it will do but if others did the same it might stand a chance

 

[Cheese]

I guess the logic is that the reduction is aimed at encouraging people to take holidays this year.  And not many people go on holiday to a marina.

 

But people do take holidays on hire boats - hence why (according to the other thread) overnight boat hire now qualifies for the reduction

[WotEver]

On 15/07/2020 at 16:08, Athy said:

I thought that take-away food was exempt from V.A.T. Not so?

Only if it's cold (as in uncooked, not a cold, congealed curry...).

[Alan de Enfield]

47 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Only if it's cold (as in uncooked, not a cold, congealed curry...).

I remember well the big VAT debate about hot food being subject to VAT - and - what was the definition of HOT.

 

Fish and Chips are 'hot food'

But where do 'hot pasties and sausage rolls' sold by the likes of Greggs, Co-Op etc etc fall.

 

As far as I remember there was no real resolution apart from 'warm' pies and pasties were not rated for VAT

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I remember well the big VAT debate about hot food being subject to VAT - and - what was the definition of HOT.

 

Fish and Chips are 'hot food'

But where do 'hot pasties and sausage rolls' sold by the likes of Greggs, Co-Op etc etc fall.

 

As far as I remember there was no real resolution apart from 'warm' pies and pasties were not rated for VAT

I thought (but could well be wrong) that if the retailer had heated the food (regardless of whether that be warming a sausage roll, or cooking some chips) then it incurred VAT, whereas if it was sold cold (even though it might have been cooked beforehand) then it was exempt.

[David Mack]

46 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I thought (but could well be wrong) that if the retailer had heated the food (regardless of whether that be warming a sausage roll, or cooking some chips) then it incurred VAT, whereas if it was sold cold (even though it might have been cooked beforehand) then it was exempt.

And I seem to recall that the retailer can sell you cold food VAT free, and at the same time provide a microwave for customers to heat up their own food if they wish.

[adam1uk]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

I thought (but could well be wrong) that if the retailer had heated the food (regardless of whether that be warming a sausage roll, or cooking some chips) then it incurred VAT, whereas if it was sold cold (even though it might have been cooked beforehand) then it was exempt.

Back in 2012 there was a shambolic budget which attempted to put vat on takeaway hot foot (which was dubbed the pasty tax) which the government was then forced to reverse.  Story here.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I remember well the big VAT debate about hot food being subject to VAT - and - what was the definition of HOT.

 

Fish and Chips are 'hot food'

But where do 'hot pasties and sausage rolls' sold by the likes of Greggs, Co-Op etc etc fall.

 

As far as I remember there was no real resolution apart from 'warm' pies and pasties were not rated for VAT

 

53 minutes ago, adam1uk said:

Back in 2012 there was a shambolic budget which attempted to put vat on takeaway hot foot (which was dubbed the pasty tax) which the government was then forced to reverse.  Story here.

 

Thanks, that's the one :

 

 

After the amendment, food such as sausage rolls or pasties sold on shelves - that is, cooling down, rather than being kept hot in a special cabinet - will not be liable for VAT.

The definition of a "hot" pasty is being altered to allow the reversal, while a 20% charge due to be levied on static caravans will now drop to 5%.

[Ianws]

Up North, and possibly elsewhere, we can enjoy a pasty barm (or bap, sandwich wherever you are). I ordered one and was told it would be cheaper if they gave me the pasty and buttered barm separately and I assembled it myself. Bonkers! Guess what I did. 

[plainsman]

17 hours ago, Cheese said:

I guess the logic is that the reduction is aimed at encouraging people to take holidays this year.  And not many people go on holiday to a marina.

 

But people do take holidays on hire boats - hence why (according to the other thread) overnight boat hire now qualifies for the reduction

It's the inconsistency I am complaining about , viz marinas are 'holiday accommodation' for March restrictions but not holiday accommodation for vat relief. BTW I use marinas often for overnight or longer when cruising.