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Potential problems for first purchase


RickS

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Hello

I have been to see a boat I am interested in again today. I hoped to see it with my head this time rather than just my heart.

It is in general need of TLC but reasonably tidy - no obvious damp. woodworm etc etc ?

However, there are three areas that seem a bit more serious so i was hoping to tap into the knowledge and experience of this forum - because I have very little in this area myself.

1  The exterior paintwork. Many little rust patches, some pickable with a fingernail but nothing deep. What is more worrying is the occaisional hard blob of what may be filler, and painted over.

2  the chimney from the stove - the joint at the stove itself is abit corroded, but the exterior chimney and collar (don't know the correct terms) are rusted to ****

3  there is a little rust on the floor of the engine compartment - doesn't look serious, but to one side of the engine block is a puddle of liquid, and there is a full bucket and mop on deck, but i don't know if this is from clearing out the engine compartment to be fair.

Are any / all of these something you would throw you hands up in haorror and walk away or is this just normal for a slighly tatty 17 year old boat?

Really appreciate any help and advice before i commit myself to a possible purchase

Thanks

Rick

Edited by Rick Savery
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4 minutes ago, Rick Savery said:

Hello

I have been to see a boat I am interested in again today. I hoped to see it with my head this time rather than just my heart.

It is in general need of TLC but reasonably tidy - no obvious damp. woodworm etc etc ?

However, there are three areas that seem a bit more serious so i was hoping to tap into the knowledge and experience of this forum - because I have very little in this area myself.

1  The exterior paintwork. Many little rust patches, some pickable with a fingernail but nothing deep. What is more worrying is the occaisional hard blob of what may be filler, and painted over.

2  the chimney from the stove - the joint at the stove itself is abit corroded, but the exterior chimney and collar (don't know the correct terms) are rusted to ****

3  there is a little rust on the floor of the engine compartment - doesn't look serious, but to one side of the engine block is a puddle of liquid, and there is a full bucket and mop on deck, but i don't know if this is from clearing out the engine compartment to be fair.

Are any / all of these something you would throw you hands up in haorror and walk away or is this just normal for a slighly tatty 17 year old boat?

Really appreciate any help and advice before i commit myself to a possible purchase

Thanks

Rick

1    If it has rust patches all over it will need a repaint anyway so any filler will be hacked out then. Unless it is very old it is unlikely to find rust perforating the cabin.  Pro job £200 to £300 per foot.

 

2    External chimney is a disposable consumable. Roof collar will be cast steel, more than likely will clean up.

 

3   Cruiser stern? usual to find water under the deck if it has no rear canopy.  Semi trad?  Same applies if there is no tonneau.

 

To value we would need much more detail, age type, size, shell builder, fit out, etc. but its your decision if you want it or if its worth it.

TD'

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Thanks Tracy

I have just been looking at chimneys and, even if they are completely knackered, it doesn't seem like a massive expense to replace them, I hadn't realise they were seen as a consumable, but OK with that.

I think a repaint is likely needed as the paintwork is tatty generally - as i say it is more the blobs of filler that worry me. Reassuring to hear that it is unlikely to have rusted through.

It's a semi-trad, with a pram cover so I am surprised at the water. It's not a lot, but neither is it just a drip or two - I was told that i can expect water in the engine compartment in any boat - which is worrying in itself 

The boat is a 2004 Keith Woods 64 foot semi-trad. Bit dated but seems sound inside, if slightly cramped. I just like the layout and potential. I don't so much mind buying work, I just don't want to buy massive problems - as i have said my knowledge and experience is virtually nonexistent

Thanks again

Rick 

Meant to say - £200 - £300 perfoot for painting Ouch! Hadn't expected that much. Thats the best part of £20,000!!

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All engine holes get a bit of water through the stern gland where the prop shaft goes through the hull, the grease or rubber rings keep a lot out but the will drip a little bit, many people have an ice cream box under there to catch the odd drips. It is also not unknown for water draining off the back of the cabin roof to leak under covers.  A 16 year old boat will have paint that needs attention, that is not cheap if you want a polished shiny boat with coachlines and signwriting, but it is unlikely there will be serious rust there check round the windows. The place to inspect for serious rust is the water line where electrolysis can happen as well as diesel removing the blacking allowing rust to occur, I would expect some pitting but 1mm max. Get a custom stainless chimney cost just over £100 and lasts for years, the black chinese built ones last a year if you are lucky. Expect to have to replace the battery bank in the near future, unless it has been looked after well and the boat has solar fitted.

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9 minutes ago, Rick Savery said:

Thanks Tracy

I have just been looking at chimneys and, even if they are completely knackered, it doesn't seem like a massive expense to replace them, I hadn't realise they were seen as a consumable, but OK with that.

I think a repaint is likely needed as the paintwork is tatty generally - as i say it is more the blobs of filler that worry me. Reassuring to hear that it is unlikely to have rusted through.

It's a semi-trad, with a pram cover so I am surprised at the water. It's not a lot, but neither is it just a drip or two - I was told that i can expect water in the engine compartment in any boat - which is worrying in itself 

The boat is a 2004 Keith Woods 64 foot semi-trad. Bit dated but seems sound inside, if slightly cramped. I just like the layout and potential. I don't so much mind buying work, I just don't want to buy massive problems - as i have said my knowledge and experience is virtually nonexistent

Thanks again

Rick 

Meant to say - £200 - £300 perfoot for painting Ouch! Hadn't expected that much. Thats the best part of £20,000!!

Painting depends much on what standard you want and how much prep and derusting required. I paint my own in a dry summer, for about £300 for materials and 2 weeks hard graft [ I'm getting a bit old for grafting ]

 

2004 is not old in boat terms, many of us have 30 year old boats, some 50+ years!

I hope you are having a survey or at least out of the water and someone used to boats having a good look at it?

I'm not familiar with Keith Woods' boats, is he the shell fabricator or just the fitout chippy?

TD'

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Second vote for getting a survey on the boat if you are serious about buying her.     It will give you a much better understanding of any potential problems and costing involved in resolving which you can use in your negotiations with the broker / owners in finalising the final price. 

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Very kind of you Tracy but almost couldn't be further from NW England ? - Boat is on the K & A.

Absolutely intend to get a survey - just wanted to check there wasn't anything screaming 'don't do it' to others who know better.

I think I shall attempt to paint it myself as I don't think I can afford the prices you mention - I sort of recall  reading about DIY painting courses under supervision so there is back up if needed. I shall have to look into those.

Dharl - thank you. I certainly shall be getting a survey on any boat I am interested in. Good to be reminded , thanks ?

Deteling - thank you also. Reassuring to know about the water. I know the boat has been un-used for a while so maybe not constant vigilance on drips via the stern gland.

There didn't seem to be any serious rust around windows or tucked away under vents etc, just general not-great-paintwork.

Tracy, I think it is Keith Wood rather than Woods - my fault - as far as I know he mainly did fit-outs but have read that he made shells too. Not sure whether this boat is just his fit-out or shell as well.

Yes, by the sound of it, i am worrying too much if people have 30-50 year old boats! ?

Thanks again all

Rick

 

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Sounds like you have a good handle on this, good luck!  
 

I don’t know how experienced you are at painting steel boats, however Cruising The Cut have done a couple of vlogs which you might find useful.       I have spent a few years painting steel ships and can vouch that his technique would have a good result! 
 

 

 

 

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I've just done a pretty major repaint on mine (I always do a bit every year so it doesn't get overwhelming) and as the mains electric is a bit iffy I bought a cordless sander. Brilliant bit of kit, I think I might frame it and hang it on the wall its so good, don't skimp on the sanding discs, buy them by the ton off e bay.

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Nice one Dharl! In answer to your question - not experienced at all! The video was interesting and made sense but never actually done any of that myself.

The boat in question makes his boat look practically rust free - many, many more little blobs of rust, with large solid blobs of ?? who knows what.

At least i now know it's do-able

Thanks again

Detling - apologies for getting your name wrong!

Richard, Bee, thank you. I shall watch those vids Richard. I have a corded sanding / vibration tool thingy which I inherited that is similar to the DeWalt tool in the above video.

Don't want to get too hung up on the painting - important though this undoubtedly is - there are other things to deal with first. This is assuming my offer is accepted.

Again, apologies if this is against protocol, but here is a link to the boat if anyone is interested:

https://www.devizesmarinaboatsales.com/ayer-rajah

 

An example of work that needs doing - not intended as a criticism to the seller, just for interests sake

 

IMG-20200522-WA0020.jpg.5f547091c002974d868ddada409312e0.jpg

Rick

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14 minutes ago, Rick Savery said:

Nice one Dharl! In answer to your question - not experienced at all! The video was interesting and made sense but never actually done any of that myself.

The boat in question makes his boat look practically rust free - many, many more little blobs of rust, with large solid blobs of ?? who knows what.

At least i now know it's do-able

Thanks again

Detling - apologies for getting your name wrong!

Richard, Bee, thank you. I shall watch those vids Richard. I have a corded sanding / vibration tool thingy which I inherited that is similar to the DeWalt tool in the above video.

Don't want to get too hung up on the painting - important though this undoubtedly is - there are other things to deal with first. This is assuming my offer is accepted.

Again, apologies if this is against protocol, but here is a link to the boat if anyone is interested:

https://www.devizesmarinaboatsales.com/ayer-rajah

 

An example of work that needs doing - not intended as a criticism to the seller, just for interests sake

 

IMG-20200522-WA0020.jpg.5f547091c002974d868ddada409312e0.jpg

Rick

Using softwoods for a cratch board is always going to be temporary. Iroko would last a lot longer. Or keruing if you can find any.

 

Looks to be a pretty boat, tempted myself but I would have to lose the bath!

TD'

Edited by Tracy D'arth
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18 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

 

I'm not familiar with Keith Woods' boats, is he the shell fabricator or just the fitout chippy?

TD'

Keith Wood was a boatbuilder in Eastern England. He had some connection with the better-known Pat Buckle before branching out (no pun intended) on his own. He did build some of his own shells but not all. He retired about 2010 (his last-ever boat is moored in the next village to us).

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21 minutes ago, Athy said:

Keith Wood was a boatbuilder in Eastern England. He had some connection with the better-known Pat Buckle before branching out (no pun intended) on his own. He did build some of his own shells but not all. He retired about 2010 (his last-ever boat is moored in the next village to us).

Thanks Athy.

 

Look to be pleasant if fussy fitouts.

I would need to know who's shells they were built on before considering one.

 

TD'

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11 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

.

I would need to know who's shells they were built on before considering one.

 

TD'

Well, we've had some answers to that already: Pat Buckle, and subsequently himself. To that short list we may add Peter Hilaire & son, alias Darke Narrowboats. All these people were Nene-based and there may well have been to-ing and fro-ing between them at various times depending on each yard's work load.

   Several forum members, past and present, have/ have had Wood or Wood/ Buckle boats. Odana and Albion certainly, possibly Peter Scott too.

 

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Such useful questions as we are at a similar stage to you, with very similar problems. Are we looking at the same boat?!? (Not really because ours is a bit shorter.) Very good luck and isn't it amazing having such knowledgeable and supportive people to learn from. 

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One caveat, ~liveaboard~ in a marina is often 240volt based, it is not off grid living. Expect batteries more than two years old to need replacing.

IMHO, living on the cut requires maybe 400 plus watts modern solar set up.  and maybe 300 plus amp hour modern leisure batteries. A 300 watt invertor would be OK for minimalist modern living. You would need to do a daily power audit, a fridge will have the biggest energy demand.

For 300 amp hour leisure batteries you really need a 30 amp smart charger, this assumes you mix marina and independent living, I believe you need an inverter and a modern battery charger designed for marine use, others would be better informed.

I think the boat at Devises is worth a viewing, upgrading bathroom and a few other areas will require more money. 

I would not want a rust patched  boat unless the price came down a least 10 percent for that alone, and I was happy to spend another £375 on tools, PPE and materials and three months part time on preparation.

Edited by LadyG
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Absolutely agree MrsM about this forum. I will be tapping into the collective knowledge and experience as much as I can now I have seen how helpful people are on here - and I need all the help I can get ?

Thanks LadyG for your observations - all make sense and the electrics in particular I hadn't thought about. My offer on the boat was rejected sadly and wasn't entirely happy about upping it to the level wanted, considering the amount of work probably needed. Learned loads from this forum by asking about it though, and makes me confident enough to look at others now ? 

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Just a general comment IMHO you should be wary of buying an existing live aboard in a popular live aboard location (London being the worst example) - buy a well cruised boat fitted with tried and tested kit - buy in non live aboard locations/marinas (K&A and London being the worst examples) you will pay a premium - are you intending to cruise or float??

Having said that it doesn't look bad at all although I have never been keen on Nene based builders - if your photo of the cratch board is typical of the outside then it might be a bit too much..

 

PM sent with a suggestion

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Intending to continuously cruise in my wildest dreams! To be fair the cratch board was in a mess that I don't think is indicative of the rest of the boat. The paintwork was rusty and tatty but not in as bad a state as the cratch - and of course much more easily fixed / bought

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Interior pics look nice, only seen the one outside pic, so hard to say how much work is needed there.  One bit of advice if you are painting it your self is to do in defined sections at a time, so that you can see progress as you proceed ( it’s very satisfying!) 

 

 

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I agree, the inside is what drew me to this boat in the first place. Sadly there weren't any pictures of the paintwork, and I didn't think to take any myself.

All a bit academic now as my initial offer was rejected and I didn't want go where the seller wanted, so at a bit of an impasse.

Off to see another one tomorrow - slightly older but looks in far better condition, and just generally nicer - fingers crossed

Sounds like good advice about painting in sections

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