Jump to content

New batteries, time to replace the wiring


Featured Posts

Just spent a weekend trying to sort out flat batteries only to realise one of the terminals had been eaten away!

 

So I will be getting two new batteries and have decided to start the rewiring process for the whole boat.

 

I have a Beta 2.0 engine with one alternator. A solar panel with controller. The two batteries are wired with a Durite relay. No 220v as yet

 

My questions are :-

 

Do I rewire as was or do I rewire in parallel without the relay? There are a few inline fuse leads attached to both positives so I will be putting a fusebox in to keep all the fuses in one place

 

Secondly, the battery bank is under the rear deck to one side of the engine. There is only the hatch cover for the engine so both the batteries and water heater have limited access. Do I get an inspection hatch cut?

 

Really doesn't help being upside down trying to find wires etc especially as I wear varifocal glasses! Tried without the glasses but couldn't find the boat let alone the batteries

 

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Assuming one of the batteries is the engine one, then just parallel is not a good idea, as both will discharge with domestic usage, and it's all too easy to go below what's needed to start the engine.

 

I'd connect the alternator to the leisure battery, and use a relay, probably easiest to use a voltage sensitive one, to connect the starter battery for charging.

 

As mentioned in another thread, Tony's notes are very good.

 

http://www.tb-training.co.uk/cover.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

Assuming one of the batteries is the engine one, then just parallel is not a good idea, as both will discharge with domestic usage, and it's all too easy to go below what's needed to start the engine.

 

I'd connect the alternator to the leisure battery, and use a relay, probably easiest to use a voltage sensitive one, to connect the starter battery for charging.

 

As mentioned in another thread, Tony's notes are very good.

 

http://www.tb-training.co.uk/cover.html

Thank you for your reply. Read Tony's notes, what an excellent reference source. And I understood it! Again thank you

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Despite the joys of the cramped space and varifocals (both of which I recognise) I recommend you put your head back in and carefully inspect the current system and sketch it out. This way, using Tony's notes for guidance you can spend a bit of time working out what is good about it and what needs changing / rearranging. Pay particular attention to ensure you plan the right fusing.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Paul Gwilliams said:

Secondly, the battery bank is under the rear deck to one side of the engine. There is only the hatch cover for the engine so both the batteries and water heater have limited access. Do I get an inspection hatch cut?

 

Assuming this is a cruiser, or semi trad stern, with the deck exposed to the elements, then an extra hatch would be complicated by the need to ensure that any rain water down the edges of the hatch board are caught and directed overboard by gutters underneath. Not difficult, but more time to take and ironwork to cut and weld. I know what you mean. I moved the house batteries on my boat as their original position meant needing to lie on top of the engine and use a torch and mirror to be able to inspect the electrolyte levels in the cells. Depending on your boat, another possibility might be to move them all, or just the house battery(ies) inside the cabin. Possibly under the cabin steps? Might be easier to get at. Read the BSS section on battery restraint, protection, venting, master switches, fuses etc to make sure your new installation, whatever it is, is safe and complies. Link to private boat requirements.

Jen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

on my cruiser style widebeam I was able to slide the batteries out from under the side deck towards the engine - a piece of 18mm ply on runners formed the bottom of the battery box - and  enough slack in the cables from the batteries to the +ve & -ve studs.  That may not be practical on a narrowboat but the concept of having the batteries moveable so you can check and maintain them is worth investigating.  Of course there must be a means of securing the sliding box against movement when access is not required.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No advise on electrckery 'cos most of my efforts only result in grey smoke and/or big sparks!

The eyesight thing I do understand, in my yoof I could read a good steel rule to a couple of thou today I have trouble finding the darned thing.

All is not lost as some supermarkets and chemists have a rack of cheap glasses of varying magnifications, it is just a matter of trying them on until you find the pait that suit the focal distance you need.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Man 'o Kent said:

All is not lost as some supermarkets and chemists have a rack of cheap glasses of varying magnifications, it is just a matter of trying them on until you find the pait that suit the focal distance you need.

you are kidding !!   I never knew that  :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got my very complicated prescription from the hospital and buy multiple pairs of glasses from Glasses Direct.co.uk.

Up to 13 pairs for differing purposes now!

They are excellent and cheap, no great loss if a pair go overboard.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Even Aldi do them -  a big rack, just work your way 'up' the strength scales until you find some that allow you to read the labels on your purchases.

I think they are around £3 a pair

The difficult bit is finding the rack of glasses in the first place. ??

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Even Aldi do them -  a big rack, just work your way 'up' the strength scales until you find some that allow you to read the labels on your purchases.

I think they are around £3 a pair

WOW  !!!          :banghead:

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

we played a rotten trick on a colleague visiting the office. 

Alan needed strong reading glasses. 

he left his briefcase open on my desk with his glasses inside. 

one of my engineers snapped his case shut and then, using an Allen key, dismantled a drawing hanger rack and re-assembled it with one rod passing through the briefcase handle.   

Alan returned, in a hurry to get off and catch his flight. 

he couldn't read the combination to open the lock. 

he had a choice - shout the f.......ing house down, go without his case or tear the handle off ...............  he did the first.

 

AFAIK some kind soul found an Allen key and retrieved Alan's briefcase before he became totally apoplectic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you all for your input.

 

Looking at the wiring diagram we have the neutrals going to the isolator, is this right?

 

Or has my myopia read the diagrams wrong?

 

If I have it might be time to let the Labrador off its harness and have a go! ?

 

Also just checked behind the wall cladding (tongue and groove) to find cable runs in amongst the polystyrene insulation. Fuse holders everywhere in the engine bay so I'm definitely going to rewire using trunking for 12v and LSOH cable. My 240v inverter will have a single socket adjacent to rcbo

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Older boats often have a single isolator in the negative (neutral is an AC electrical term) so yours may well have two. For technical reasons that have become more pressing with the equipment we put on boats today I would advise that when you rewire you change them to the positive.

 

Although polystyrene can attack the cable insulation my observations seem to say cable tends to attack the polystyrene. An easy fix is to put duct tape over the insulation so the cab;e insulation no longer touches it. While doing that you will soon find out is nay insulation has gone hard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Although polystyrene can attack the cable insulation my observations seem to say cable tends to attack the polystyrene. An easy fix is to put duct tape over the insulation so the cable insulation no longer touches it. While doing that you will soon find out is nay insulation has gone hard.

Polystyrene sticks to, &, attacks the plasticisers in PVC cable and the insulation then becomes brittle, the insulation falls off eventually leaving bare copper conductors.

 

(9 years working for a cable manufacturer as a cable designer)

 

 

 

 

PVC Cable.jpg

PVC Cable2.jpg

  • Horror 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another easy fix, which worked for me, was to disconnect one end of each length of cable and then push a garden hose over it until it appears at the other end, then cut it to length. This enables you to include inaccessible areas, and even separate it from the poly if is stuck to it.

  • Happy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 14/07/2020 at 12:47, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The difficult bit is finding the rack of glasses in the first place. ??

I went to the opticians last week. Guess who I bumped into?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone!

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

(9 years working for a cable manufacturer as a cable designer)

 

 

 

 

 

 

One could say if its a known problem and has been for many years you weren't very good at your job (a great big smily ? and wink :glare: so you dont miss it?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

One could say if its a known problem and has been for many years you weren't very good at your job (a great big smily ? and wink :glare: so you dont miss it?)

Fair comment (smiley acknowledged)

It was simply a case of using the 'right insulation for the environment', we were supplying the Record Payer manufacturers (shows how long ago that was) and they used a rigid Polystyrene (not the bubby, crumbly stuff) so we had to develop a non-migratory PVC.

We also developed a - termite resistant PVC which was used on runway lighting cables in countries suffering from Termite attacks, but my big claim to fame (and patents) was a replacement for Pyro Fire alarm cabling.

 

Almost 50 years ago !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 , but my big claim to fame (and patents) was a replacement for Pyro Fire alarm cabling.

 

Almost 50 years ago !

Its a pity our company didn't specify it. Piro and vibration don't go well together.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.