Advice on first Liveaboard needed please!

[baronbradders]

Hi, first post on the forum although I've been lurking for a while.

 

We are looking into having a boat built to use as a liveaboard.

 

We've been round quite a few brokers to get the general feel of things. After seeing what your money gets you, we've opted to go down the sailaway route on a new build rather than refit an existing boat.

 

The boat will have to accomodate myself and partner, two young children (4yrs and 12 months by the time I complete the fit), and three cats.

 

After visiting numerous builders we have pretty much decided on canaltime at Shardlow, the boat we planned to go for was a 70 foot wide hatched trad Mike Christian with a yanmar 43hp.

This will be supplied as an unlined sailaway and I am intending on fitting out the boat myself. The yard owner is happy to supply a fit out mooring for 12 months.

 

We are just waiting to sell our house and we can go ahead and book a slot.

 

However the plans have changed slightly with regards to the style of boat. The darkness at the top of the stairs has spotted a tug style boat in one of the many books I have acquired. This tug had a double bed under the tug deck and looks like quite a good solution to our needs.

 

The problem is I don't know a huge amount about tugs and am having a little trouble finding any info on them, so if anyone can help i'd be hugely grateful.

 

Is the bed under deck idea a practical solution?

 

How long would the deck need to be( as i'm going to have to adjust the accomodation plans accordingly)?

 

And finally where does the water tank go if we're going to put a bed under there? We're going to need about 200 gallons.

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Oh and any other liveaboard advice you can throw our way would be much welcomed!

Edited September 24, 2007 by baronbradders

[Big John]

Welcome to the Forum

 

I'm tempted to say, have a water-bed, but as it's your first post, I won't

 

Enjoy the planning - and accept this as a recommendation for living on a liveaboard

[Dr Bradley]

Be prepared for your children to be in their teens by the time you finish but best of luck, I'm about to do the same.

[StoneHenge]

I don't know much about tugs, as we live on a 62 foot 6 foot narrow boat, and we have two kids, but I wish you lots of luck in the planning and fitting. I think as long as you are prepared for it taking longer than you thought and more than likely over budget, you will be fine.

 

Ensure lots of storage space, and ample space for the two kids, as they will need this as they get older. We have a 600 litre water tank which with conservative use lasts us two weeks. 200 Gallons would be good for a family like that, and it depends on what else you are running (washing machines, showers or even a full size bath), so you it's really worth having a gauage putting on if you can so you can monitor how quickly your water goes down.

 

It also depends on whether you intend to use the boat to cruise in and how much time practically you will spend on it cruising. We fitted a stove with a back boiler, then realised we wanted to cruise a lot more than we had before, so we took it out, so we didn't need to power the pump.

 

If you are not intending to cruise much, and have a mooring all set up with a power point, then it's different to worrying about battery power on the rivers or canals.

 

Oh, and don't throw away all your tools when you sell the house. Keep everything, because chances are, you will need it!

 

You will have to keep a build blog, it would be nice to see it fitted out bit by bit! good luck with it all.

Edited September 25, 2007 by StoneHenge

[blackrose]

After visiting numerous builders we have pretty much decided on canaltime at Shardlow, the boat we planned to go for was a 70 foot wide hatched trad Mike Christian with a yanmar 43hp.

This will be supplied as an unlined sailaway and I am intending on fitting out the boat myself. The yard owner is happy to supply a fit out mooring for 12 months.

 

I think you might be on the wrong forum

 

Seriously though, don't underestimate the hours of labour (much of it fairly skilled) & the cash it will cost to fit a boat out yourself. If you're moving onboard with family then plan to do it after everything's finished, because once you all move onboard progress will come to a crawl.

 

If you're really going to do it all yourself then plan for 9 months to a year - and that's if you're not otherwise employed.

[Gary Peacock]

One thing I have noticed over the last year or so is that a lot of potential self fitters seem to have become more realistic about what is involved and the likely costs.

 

In the past I used to deal with at least one person a week who in my view didn't stand a chance of completing a self fit out with their skill levels or on there intended budget.

 

It's a bit of a strange subject within the industry because obviously if you're in the business of building hulls you don't do yourself any favours by pointing out to customers what the potential costs and complexity of a self fit out are going to be.

 

I would say that looking back probably only about 50% of the DIY jobs we sold ever really got completed some of those did end up being done to a very high standard but often took a lot longer than planned.

Edited September 25, 2007 by Gary Peacock

[Gibbo]

The boat will have to accomodate myself and partner, two young children (4yrs and 12 months by the time I complete the fit), and three cats.

 

So you're planning conception in about 2 year's time then?

 

Gibbo

[blackrose]

I would say that looking back probably only about 50% of the DIY jobs we sold ever really got completed some of those did end up being done to a very high standard but often took a lot longer than planned.

 

What happened to the other 50%? Did they end up getting sold on as unfinished projects? That might be the way to get one's hands on a bargain Legard Bridge barge...

[Gary Peacock]

What happened to the other 50%? Did they end up getting sold on as unfinished projects? That might be the way to get one's hands on a bargain Legard Bridge barge...

 

Well I suppose quite a lot were unfinished projects that got sold on and a few others are works in progress! (That don't progress!)

 

Usually if it doesn't get finished in the first two or three years it wont.

 

One customer said he would do it in six weeks over two years ago! But saying that it is nearly finished now and very nice too, but the costs involved would have paid for us to have done it for him two years sooner.

[baronbradders]

I think you might be on the wrong forum

 

Seriously though, don't underestimate the hours of labour (much of it fairly skilled) & the cash it will cost to fit a boat out yourself. If you're moving onboard with family then plan to do it after everything's finished, because once you all move onboard progress will come to a crawl.

 

If you're really going to do it all yourself then plan for 9 months to a year - and that's if you're not otherwise employed.

 

Oops, missed a comma out there. should read 70 foot, wide hatched.....

 

Thanks for all the advice so far, we are moving into rented accomodation whilst the fit out is completed and I am really hoping 12 months will see it pretty much liveable. I have a decent fit budget and as I work for a certain DIY retailer i'm hoping that will help me come under.

 

Also as I'm doing the fit pretty much next to the builders workshop, if I find something that I struggle with i'll try and get someone from the yard to help speed things up!

[Chrisy]

I have cheated a little and got my first boat and now the new one been built part-fitted. So I had the Kitchen and Bathroom done meaning only the electrics for me to do. Always thought it was nice to have someone to go back to if there is an issue with gas, diesel or plumbing as they generally take longer to sort than electrics. The boat builders I use let me buy my own cooker ect... Therefore knowing exactly what I'm paying and they fit it for free.

 

 

It also means that from getting the boat I can be living in it in 4 weeks max.

 

 

Just a thought.

[thomasthetanker]

Each to their own and everything but why do people want an IKEA style kitchen on a boat?

Looking at some and you think "now thats just a very small cramped house" not hey cool, its a boat

[blackrose]

Each to their own and everything but why do people want an IKEA style kitchen on a boat?

Looking at some and you think "now thats just a very small cramped house" not hey cool, its a boat

 

I think it's probably because Ikea make the cheapest half decent quality kitchen units, but I know what you mean. Some people want their boats to look like modern apartments. I think it's due to the irritating TV make-over culture that we've been living with for the past 10 or 15 years. In houses & flats everyone wants bland homogenised interiors that all look the same and it's carried over into boats, especially widebeams where you really can make it resemble a flat if you want to.

 

Having said that I live on a widebeam and I have an Ikea kitchen, but my design was for a galley rather than a modern kitchen and my boat still looks like a boat on the inside. I'll try to post an interior picture soon.

[Lesd]

I'd be really interested in seeing those pics Mike, not really sure what you mean by a 'galley' rather than a 'kitchen' in real terms.

Rgds

Les

(soon to be owner of a widebeam with a domestic Howden's kitchen lol)

[blackrose]

I'd be really interested in seeing those pics Mike, not really sure what you mean by a 'galley' rather than a 'kitchen' in real terms.

Rgds

Les

(soon to be owner of a widebeam with a domestic Howden's kitchen lol)

 

I just mean that the kitchen occupies both sides of the cabin's stern end. My back doors from the cruiser deck are in the middle and steps go down into the kitchen which is on both sides of the boat like 2 L shapes, so you walk right through the galley. I'll borrow a digital camera today and try to post them.

Edited September 27, 2007 by blackrose

[Gary Peacock]

This was done with a cheap standard kitchen-

 

 

 

Might be some more ideas HERE

[Nine of Hearts]

I just mean that the kitchen occupies both sides of the cabin's stern end.

 

I'm with Lesd, I still don't see what the difference is between a boat style "galley" and a conventional "kitchen"??? Unless you've got a gimbal mounted stove?

 

cupboards >> worktop >> sink/hob etc. What's the alternative? I'm not being difficult, I'm genuinely puzzled.

[Gary Peacock]

 

The Captain Pugwash brigade tend to call the kitchen a galley.

 

The Pugwashers are similar to the Rosie & Jims but can easily be identified by their boats being equipped with large ships wheels to steer with or a ships bell and lots of nautical nautical brass wear.

 

They also tend to prefer the captains hat and deck shoes over the flat cap and clogs.

[andywatson]

Hi, first post on the forum although I've been lurking for a while.

 

We are looking into having a boat built to use as a liveaboard.

 

We've been round quite a few brokers to get the general feel of things. After seeing what your money gets you, we've opted to go down the sailaway route on a new build rather than refit an existing boat.

 

The boat will have to accomodate myself and partner, two young children (4yrs and 12 months by the time I complete the fit), and three cats.

 

After visiting numerous builders we have pretty much decided on canaltime at Shardlow, the boat we planned to go for was a 70 foot wide hatched trad Mike Christian with a yanmar 43hp.

This will be supplied as an unlined sailaway and I am intending on fitting out the boat myself. The yard owner is happy to supply a fit out mooring for 12 months.

 

We are just waiting to sell our house and we can go ahead and book a slot.

 

However the plans have changed slightly with regards to the style of boat. The darkness at the top of the stairs has spotted a tug style boat in one of the many books I have acquired. This tug had a double bed under the tug deck and looks like quite a good solution to our needs.

 

The problem is I don't know a huge amount about tugs and am having a little trouble finding any info on them, so if anyone can help i'd be hugely grateful.

 

Is the bed under deck idea a practical solution?

 

How long would the deck need to be( as i'm going to have to adjust the accomodation plans accordingly)?

 

And finally where does the water tank go if we're going to put a bed under there? We're going to need about 200 gallons.

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Oh and any other liveaboard advice you can throw our way would be much welcomed!

 

Depending on the deck height, putting a bed under the tug deck is practicable and makes for quite a cosy little bedroom. On Northwich Traders (by RW Davis) this is quite common and there is still plenty of space for the (integral) water tank. I've got 2 singles with a small wardrobe apeice under mine but a good sized double also fits in..

You might find that you need to include an escape hatch up through the deck to cmply with safety regs.

[blackrose]

I'm with Lesd, I still don't see what the difference is between a boat style "galley" and a conventional "kitchen"??? Unless you've got a gimbal mounted stove?

 

cupboards >> worktop >> sink/hob etc. What's the alternative? I'm not being difficult, I'm genuinely puzzled.

 

By galley I just meant it looks like a kitchen on a boat rather than a modern kitchen in a flat, that's all, no great mystery.

 

Sorry the pictures are a bit dark, no flash.

 

 

 

 

Excuse the mess! I must get around to clearing up sometime... I don't have gas installed yet so the hob and the hot water heater aren't working - I've been cooking on that camping stove for the past 2 years!

 

For me the beauty of this design is its symmetry. The kitchen is big yets it takes up very little space itself and it keeps the kitchen/living area open plan. If I have guests around, the drop leaf table (one side of which you can see with my laptop on), can be pulled out into the space and fully opened up.

Edited September 27, 2007 by blackrose

[Lesd]

By galley I just meant it looks like a kitchen on a boat rather than a modern kitchen in a flat, that's all, no great mystery.

 

Sorry the pictures are a bit dark, no flash.

 

 

 

 

Excuse the mess! I must get around to clearing up sometime... I don't have gas installed yet so the hob and the hot water heater aren't working - I've been cooking on that camping stove for the past 2 years!

 

For me the beauty of this design is its symmetry. The kitchen is big yets it takes up very little space itself and it keeps the kitchen/living area open plan. If I have guests around, the drop leaf table (one side of which you can see with my laptop on), can be pulled out into the space and fully opened up.

 

Mike,

I missed your post first time around, now I cant see the pics. Can you refresh the post somehow ?

Cheers

Les