Do most people actually observe the speed limits on the canals?

[Rob-M]

4 minutes ago, Athy said:

Yes. It's about four m.p.h. Three m.p.h. would be a steady walking pace. The traditional beat policeman's walk is, I've been told, two-and-a-half m.p.h. and that looks pretty slow.

Why? It's only a brisk walking pace after all.

If I tried doing 4mph I would be dragging the bottom or destroying the banks with a breaking wash on the canals. On the Gloucester Sharpness where there is some depth I can do 4mph and coming up the Severn I might even hit 5mph.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

10 minutes ago, Athy said:

Yes. It's about four m.p.h. Three m.p.h. would be a steady walking pace. The traditional beat policeman's walk is, I've been told, two-and-a-half m.p.h. and that looks pretty slow.

Why? It's only a brisk walking pace after all.

As something of a walker, a brisk walking pace (4mph) isn't something that the average person is going to keep up for very long, a mile every 15 minutes is pretty quick. When walking on various trails I am more than content to walk a mile in 20 minutes (3mph) or less depending on the terrain. The old fashioned beat policeman's walk was in fact about 2 miles an hour (unless heading for refreshments).

 

What I tend to set my cruising pace on is engine speed. If there is no reason to be on tickover, I run at about 1600 rpm but this gives a variety of different speeds dependent upon conditions. I've just done the run from Peterborough to Dog and Doublet on the River Nene and, although it is about 5 miles (4.8 if we want to be exact) it only took me an hour and five minutes at that engine speed, which was considerably less than I was expecting. On the other hand on sections of the South Oxford travelling at that engine speed will barely get me above 2.5 miles per hour. What I think people need to be more mindful of isn't speed over ground but speed through the water. I watched a time share boat on the Llangollen who was flogging the engine and probably getting 5mph speed through the water, all they were really doing though was moving a lot of water, their speed over ground was probably less than 1mph (I could have crawled on my hands and knees faster than they were going).  

[Alan de Enfield]

28 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

As something of a walker, a brisk walking pace (4mph) isn't something that the average person is going to keep up for very long, a mile every 15 minutes is pretty quick. When walking on various trails I am more than content to walk a mile in 20 minutes (3mph) or less depending on the terrain. The old fashioned beat policeman's walk was in fact about 2 miles an hour (unless heading for refreshments).

According to my GPS my 'flat-land' hiking speed with a 32lb rucksack is a tad over 4mph, with a max of 5mph and a days moving average of normally 3.5+ mph

[TheBiscuits]

3 hours ago, Athy said:

As far as I know, there is only one rule, which is not to exceed 4 m.p.h. on any canal.

 

The Gloucester & Sharpness has an 8mph limit, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head.  It is a big enough waterway to get away with it though.

[Naughty Cal]

2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

The Gloucester & Sharpness has an 8mph limit, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head.  It is a big enough waterway to get away with it though.

The Aire and Calder, SSYN and parts of the Grand Union are 6mph.

 

"No person shall navigate a power-driven vessel on any canal at a speed over the bed of the canal greater than the following:- (a) On the Trent Navigation (except between Averham Weir and Newark Nether Lock and between Beeston Lock and Trent Lock, Nottingham), a speed of 6 miles per hour upstream and 8 miles per hour downstream. (b) On the Aire and Calder Navigation (except the Selby Canal), the New Junction Canal, the Sheffield and South Yorkshire Navigation, the Grand Union Canal (from the junction with the River Trent at Soar Mouth to West Bridge, Leicester), the Weaver Navigation and the Witham Navigation a speed of 6 miles per hour."

[Athy]

6 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

The Gloucester & Sharpness has an 8mph limit, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head.  It is a big enough waterway to get away with it though.

I just knew that if I said "any canal", someone would know about an exception!

I have no knowledge of the broad-gauge waterways of the North; perhaps some of those have higher limits too.....as Rachel's post, which crossed with mine, demonstrates.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Athy

[Rob-M]

1 minute ago, Athy said:

I just knew that if I said "any canal", someone would know about an exception!

I have no knowledge of the broad-gauge waterways of the North; perhaps some of those have higher limits too.

Geography not a strong point, Gloucester is not a northern waterway.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Rob-M

[john6767]

2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

The Gloucester & Sharpness has an 8mph limit, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head.  It is a big enough waterway to get away with it though.

Are you certain it is 8mph, I thought the G&S was 6mph (the same at the Severn upstream).  Not that is relevant to me, our boat will not do 6mph is still water anyway, 5.5 mph it about it, which I tested on the G&S.

 

On normal canals with a 4mph limit I doubt there are many places where you can responsibly do 4mph speed, the BCN New Main Line is one where you can but can’t think of another off hand.  I would say 99% of people so stick to the canal speed limit.  Now on the Thames is another matter, those with boats that are capable generally don’t seem to stick to the limit.

[Naughty Cal]

Just now, john6767 said:

Are you certain it is 8mph, I thought the G&S was 6mph (the same at the Severn upstream).  Not that is relevant to me, our boat will not do 6mph is still water anyway, 5.5 mph it about it, which I tested on the G&S.

 

On normal canals with a 4mph limit I doubt there are many places where you can responsibly do 4mph speed, the BCN New Main Line is one where you can but can’t think of another off hand.  I would say 99% of people so stick to the canal speed limit.  Now on the Thames is another matter, those with boats that are capable generally don’t seem to stick to the limit.

I would be surprised if a narrowboat couldn't do 4mph on the Fosssdyke without causing a breaking wash.

[john6767]

5 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

The Aire and Calder, SSYN and parts of the Grand Union are 6mph.

 

"No person shall navigate a power-driven vessel on any canal at a speed over the bed of the canal greater than the following:- (a) On the Trent Navigation (except between Averham Weir and Newark Nether Lock and between Beeston Lock and Trent Lock, Nottingham), a speed of 6 miles per hour upstream and 8 miles per hour downstream. (b) On the Aire and Calder Navigation (except the Selby Canal), the New Junction Canal, the Sheffield and South Yorkshire Navigation, the Grand Union Canal (from the junction with the River Trent at Soar Mouth to West Bridge, Leicester), the Weaver Navigation and the Witham Navigation a speed of 6 miles per hour."

The bit it is referring to as Grand Union is basically the river Soar, don’t give people ideas that they can do 6mph on 5he GU!

[TheBiscuits]

3 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

The Aire and Calder, SSYN and parts of the Grand Union are 6mph.

 

"No person shall navigate a power-driven vessel on any canal at a speed over the bed of the canal greater than the following:- (a) On the Trent Navigation (except between Averham Weir and Newark Nether Lock and between Beeston Lock and Trent Lock, Nottingham), a speed of 6 miles per hour upstream and 8 miles per hour downstream. (b) On the Aire and Calder Navigation (except the Selby Canal), the New Junction Canal, the Sheffield and South Yorkshire Navigation, the Grand Union Canal (from the junction with the River Trent at Soar Mouth to West Bridge, Leicester), the Weaver Navigation and the Witham Navigation a speed of 6 miles per hour."

Thanks, I didn't know the New Junction Canal had a higher limit.

 

I knew the river navigations were faster.

 

Was the quote from memory?  

 

 

[john6767]

Just now, Naughty Cal said:

I would be surprised if a narrowboat couldn't do 4mph on the Fosssdyke without causing a breaking wash.

Yes, and I am sure we did, but that not really a normal canal in this context.  For normal canal think the Oxford, Coventry, B&F etc.

[Naughty Cal]

1 minute ago, john6767 said:

The bit it is referring to as Grand Union is basically the river Soar, don’t give people ideas that they can do 6mph on 5he GU!

I'm sure from memory there are some stretches of canal involved in that section as well?

 

We certainly wouldn't have been attempting to do 6mph on those sections......

2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Thanks, I didn't know the New Junction Canal had a higher limit.

 

I knew the river navigations were faster.

 

Was the quote from memory?  

 

 

No I had to look them up 

[john6767]

2 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

I'm sure from memory there are some stretches of canal involved in that section as well?

 

We certainly wouldn't have been attempting to do 6mph on those sections......

No I had to look them up 

I just checked where West Bridge is in Leicester, and it is by the Castle Gardens moorings, so it is only the rivers section that is 6mph, although some parts of the river are canalised.  The pure canal part, GU,  starts abouve the Lock by the football ground I think.

[Alan de Enfield]

Does anyone know the speed limit as you enter Lincoln via Brayford Pool ?

 

Just askin !

[Victor Vectis]

8 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Thanks, I didn't know the New Junction Canal had a higher limit.

The New Junction is deep and wide (cue for a song?)

Despite it being a candidate for 'boring' due to it's straightness I think it is lovely.

 

I still find it odd to think I used to crawl about half a mile underneath it when I worked at Hatfield Colliery.

 

As to speeds, I use a hand held GPS on the back of the boat.

Our personal best is 12mph, going upstream through Gainsborough on the rising tide!

[Detling]

The nuisance to other boats is not your boats speed and definately not the RPM of the engine, it is the mound of water your boat is pushing along the canal in front of it and the lump being pulled along behind. If you slow down 2 boatlengths or so in front of a moored boat the hump in front has time to flatten out as does the one behind you, if you cut the revs as you reach the boat the hump has already lifted and moved the moored boat.  If you have a boat with a small prop and low tickover you need to be aware the guy following you past a line of moored boats may not be able to go as slow as you, and is may not be able to steer being in neutral most of the time. You should slow down early, travel at about 1 to 1.5 mph  everyone is happy, no humps in front or behind.  It does help if the moorer has his lines going forward and backward and not at a rightangle to the bank, even better with a spring.

[Athy]

21 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Geography not a strong point, Gloucester is not a northern waterway.

If geography isn't one of your strong points, how do you know it isn't?

Edited July 13, 2020 by Athy

[Rob-M]

2 minutes ago, Athy said:

If geography isn't one of your strong points, how do you know it isn't?

It wasn't a reference to my geography knowledge it was aimed at yours and your reference to northern waterways.

 

Having moored on the Gloucester and Sharpness for a few years and only boated on it two weeks ago I know where it is.

[GUMPY]

2 minutes ago, Detling said:

You should slow down early, travel at about 1 to 1.5 mph  everyone is happy, no humps in front or behind.

So knock in and out of gear, I don't think so.

I slow to tickover but that's still just over 2mph and not even a ripple on the water.

At least the speed limit on my local river is a sensible 7mph

 

[Athy]

1 minute ago, Rob-M said:

It wasn't a reference to my geography knowledge it was aimed at yours and your reference to northern waterways.

 

Having moored on the Gloucester and Sharpness for a few years and only boated on it two weeks ago I know where it is.

Well done! So do I.

I did not suggest that the G&S was a Northern waterway, so I'm unsure of your point.

[TheBiscuits]

25 minutes ago, john6767 said:

Are you certain it is 8mph, I thought the G&S was 6mph (the same at the Severn upstream).  Not that is relevant to me, our boat will not do 6mph is still water anyway, 5.5 mph it about it, which I tested on the G&S.

 

You are correct at 6mph, having just looked it up.  There is a very old signpost at Sharpness that says Speed Limit 8mph but like you I can't go that fast anyway.

[Rob-M]

9 minutes ago, Athy said:

Well done! So do I.

I did not suggest that the G&S was a Northern waterway, so I'm unsure of your point.

In response to the biscuits post where he referenced the G+S you replied with "I have no knowledge of the broad-gauge waterways of the North" therefore it made it read as if you were saying the G+S was a waterway of the North.

 

Some responses are aimed at being a little comical but the humour gets lost when it needs to be explained.

[Athy]

Just now, Rob-M said:

In response to the biscuits post where he referenced the G+S you replied with "I have no knowledge of the broad-gauge waterways of the North" therefore it made it read as if you were saying the G+S was a waterway of the North.

 

 

No, it didn't.

English comprehension not a strong point?

[nicknorman]

5 hours ago, Thomas C King said:

A relatively new boater here. When I first started boating I used my phone to measure the speed so that I had a good idea of how slow to go. Past moored boats I just slow up to a crawl. However, I was wondering if people actually observe these limits in general? I don't exactly have a nice random sample, but the vast majority of boats seem to wizz past our boat when we are moored. I am measuring by how fast they look to be going by rather than sound, compared to how fast we go by when we crawl along. This makes the boat rock and the 'safety pins' get a good tug. We are on the north bit of the Oxford canal at the moment, and previously we were around Braunston on the Grand Union.

 

I'm just curious whether these are written rules that basically most people ignore. I don't plan on ignoring them myself, particularly when going past moored boats...

Yes people observe the 4mph limit for the simple reason that, as previously stated, it’s not really possible to hit 4mph on your average canal (G&S and some NE waterways excepted). If a narrowboat was passing you on the S Oxford at over 4mph I’m sure it would be up on hydrofoils!
 

There does seem to be a lot of moaning on here about other boats moving. I’m sure the same people pull into a lay-by off an A road and then moan about all the cars whizzing past at 60mph.

 

The canals are a transport network, not a linear picnic or housing park. If your boat moving as other boats pass offends you, I can recommend getting a house or caravan.
 

About 50% of the moored boats we pass are badly moored so as to maximise the rocking and surging - slack lines and lines at 90degrees for example. I will agree with you that it is harder to moor properly when on stakes as opposed to against piling or on rings, but on most canals, most of the time there is plenty of opportunity to avoid mooring on stakes.

 

I can’t remember the last time we were passed by a boat going unreasonably fast so I can only conclude that the plethora of people moaning about speeding boats passing, simply don’t know how to tie their boats up properly. We do always slow to tickover well before passing moored boats but with a Beta 43, a big prop and a deep draft we do still move a fair bit of water as we pass. But we have a very quiet engine so we hardly ever get shouted at! I’m sure if I put it into neutral and revved the engine up to 1500rpm there would be lots of people shouting!