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The machine stops (followed by white smoke!)


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55 minutes ago, Steve56 said:

Personally I would not even bother with a stop solenoid. Just go for a cable stop. In fact when I bought my new Beta 75 I went into the factory to do a few mods to the engine. One of the mods was to remove the stop solenoid make up brackets to accept a stop cable. As someone said earlier, keep it simple.

Whilst I agree that could be preferable this solenoid is not like the Beta one with external linkage. Its  a bit like the Vetus (2 pot) one with the bit that moves inside the engine. At the least it will require a blanking plate with a push or pull rod in it and quiet possibly the rod would need a bush and oil seal. Remember few engine ranges and models will be exactly the same as yours.

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3 hours ago, Iain_S said:

Not sure if it's the same poster, but there's a thread on Facebook which shows the circuit diagram, with one connection being from ignition power, and the other from the starter solenoid terminal. So looks like two coils, one always energised when engine running, and an additional one energised when cranking to pull the solenoid in initially.

 

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

There is a thread on Facebook with exactly the same problem

I have not a member of the Facebook family for a couple of years, so not me. Perhaps someone reading this looking for answers too?

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1 hour ago, Steve56 said:

Personally I would not even bother with a stop solenoid. Just go for a cable stop. In fact when I bought my new Beta 75 I went into the factory to do a few mods to the engine. One of the mods was to remove the stop solenoid make up brackets to accept a stop cable. As someone said earlier, keep it simple.

Can you gut the solenoid and make it mechanical?

TD'

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23 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Whilst I agree that could be preferable this solenoid is not like the Beta one with external linkage. Its  a bit like the Vetus (2 pot) one with the bit that moves inside the engine. At the least it will require a blanking plate with a push or pull rod in it and quiet possibly the rod would need a bush and oil seal. Remember few engine ranges and models will be exactly the same as yours.

Whilst some of the Beta engines have the solenoid with external linkages many of them have an almost identical looking one. I think that even if the engine has an internal type it will probably still have the external stop lever that can accept a cable. Then it would be a simple case of fitting a blanking plate in place of the solenoid.

10 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Can you gut the solenoid and make it mechanical?

TD'

I think the engine will still have it's normal stop lever in place. I know with the Beta engine, when an internal solenoid is fitted there is still a stop lever.

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47 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

Closed group, so not only would OP have to join Facebook but in addition he'd have to ask Phil to give him membership if the group.

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19 hours ago, Iain_S said:

So no timer involved, just a supply from the starter to pull it in

18 hours ago, WotEver said:

Closed group, so not only would OP have to join Facebook but in addition he'd have to ask Phil to give him membership if the group.

I have just asked Phil if I can copy it

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58 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

So no timer involved, just a supply from the starter to pull it in

I have just asked Phil if I can copy it

If that is the case then using the starter for more than a very few seconds is likely to burn the solenoid out. That has implications for older engines and when bleeding/fault finding the fuel system.

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55 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

If that is the case then using the starter for more than a very few seconds is likely to burn the solenoid out. That has implications for older engines and when bleeding/fault finding the fuel system.

I guess the thought at that on starting the voltage may be down to 9ish volts and a coil designed for 14.4 volts may not pull in

 

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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

If that is the case then using the starter for more than a very few seconds is likely to burn the solenoid out. That has implications for older engines and when bleeding/fault finding the fuel system.

It just has to be a one shot to pull it in, milliseconds.

TD'

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2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Not if you crank for 2 minutes or more to get the air out

No, once it is pulled in the current required to hold in is less.

The problem would arise if it was repeatedly actuated in short bursts.

TD'

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi guys

 

Sorry I just realised I'd forgotten to update you all.

It was the humble solenoid.

Replaced and it's all is rainbows, bunnies and green fields again :)

A two minutes internet order and a couple of bolts and that was it.

 

Thanks a lot for all your help as usual.

  • Greenie 2
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13 minutes ago, pedroinlondon said:

Hi guys

 

Sorry I just realised I'd forgotten to update you all.

It was the humble solenoid.

Replaced and it's all is rainbows, bunnies and green fields again :)

A two minutes internet order and a couple of bolts and that was it.

 

Thanks a lot for all your help as usual.

 

13 minutes ago, pedroinlondon said:

Hi guys

 

Sorry I just realised I'd forgotten to update you all.

It was the humble solenoid.

Replaced and it's all is rainbows, bunnies and green fields again :)

A two minutes internet order and a couple of bolts and that was it.

 

Thanks a lot for all your help as usual.

I'd like to edit my original post, so to suggest to readers they may wish to skip the first pages so they don't panic lol.
I cannot find an "edit" button. Am I missing something?

 

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2 minutes ago, pedroinlondon said:

 

I'd like to edit my original post, so to suggest to readers they may wish to skip the first pages so they don't panic lol.
I cannot find an "edit" button. Am I missing something?

 

There is a forum time limit for editing.

 

Thanks for the update.  Most just disappear and leave the post hanging.

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16 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

There is a forum time limit for editing.

 

Thanks for the update.  Most just disappear and leave the post hanging.

Thanks Tracy, that makes sense.
Yes, half of the point of posting questions here is so that others can get answers. No that only solenoid connections cause white smoke of course :)

Edited by pedroinlondon
typo
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Just now, pedroinlondon said:

Thanks Tracy, that makes sense.
Yes, half of the point of post questions is so that others here can get answers. No that only solenoid connections cause white smoke of course :)

Did you replace the connector on the wiring? Was it available as a spare part if you did? Or had to find it elsewhere?

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5 hours ago, pedroinlondon said:

Hi guys

 

Sorry I just realised I'd forgotten to update you all.

It was the humble solenoid.

Replaced and it's all is rainbows, bunnies and green fields again :)

A two minutes internet order and a couple of bolts and that was it.

 

Thanks a lot for all your help as usual.

Sorry, I’m late to the party, but the cause of the failure is, as already mentioned, the lack of a timer. Anything other than an instant start when turning the key will result in the low resistance coil overheating. Being aware of the issue will allow you to “work around” the problem i.e never continue cranking if it doesn’t start instantly. It’s a cheap bodge by the mariniser that’s now costing owners a lot of money. A cheap work around would be to put a momentary contact switch between a switched ignition feed and the low resistance coil. Just tap the switch to set the solenoid after turning on the ignition.

 

Edited by Eeyore
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