Tony Brooks Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 55 minutes ago, Steve56 said: Personally I would not even bother with a stop solenoid. Just go for a cable stop. In fact when I bought my new Beta 75 I went into the factory to do a few mods to the engine. One of the mods was to remove the stop solenoid make up brackets to accept a stop cable. As someone said earlier, keep it simple. Whilst I agree that could be preferable this solenoid is not like the Beta one with external linkage. Its a bit like the Vetus (2 pot) one with the bit that moves inside the engine. At the least it will require a blanking plate with a push or pull rod in it and quiet possibly the rod would need a bush and oil seal. Remember few engine ranges and models will be exactly the same as yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedroinlondon Posted July 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Iain_S said: Not sure if it's the same poster, but there's a thread on Facebook which shows the circuit diagram, with one connection being from ignition power, and the other from the starter solenoid terminal. So looks like two coils, one always energised when engine running, and an additional one energised when cranking to pull the solenoid in initially. 1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said: There is a thread on Facebook with exactly the same problem I have not a member of the Facebook family for a couple of years, so not me. Perhaps someone reading this looking for answers too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy D'arth Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Steve56 said: Personally I would not even bother with a stop solenoid. Just go for a cable stop. In fact when I bought my new Beta 75 I went into the factory to do a few mods to the engine. One of the mods was to remove the stop solenoid make up brackets to accept a stop cable. As someone said earlier, keep it simple. Can you gut the solenoid and make it mechanical? TD' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve56 Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 23 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: Whilst I agree that could be preferable this solenoid is not like the Beta one with external linkage. Its a bit like the Vetus (2 pot) one with the bit that moves inside the engine. At the least it will require a blanking plate with a push or pull rod in it and quiet possibly the rod would need a bush and oil seal. Remember few engine ranges and models will be exactly the same as yours. Whilst some of the Beta engines have the solenoid with external linkages many of them have an almost identical looking one. I think that even if the engine has an internal type it will probably still have the external stop lever that can accept a cable. Then it would be a simple case of fitting a blanking plate in place of the solenoid. 10 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said: Can you gut the solenoid and make it mechanical? TD' I think the engine will still have it's normal stop lever in place. I know with the Beta engine, when an internal solenoid is fitted there is still a stop lever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain_S Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 https://www.facebook.com/groups/144684286108763/718173235426529/?comment_id=718187272091792&reply_comment_id=718191765424676¬if_id=1595625344126272¬if_t=group_comment&ref=notif is the Farcebok post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 47 minutes ago, Iain_S said: https://www.facebook.com/groups/144684286108763/718173235426529/?comment_id=718187272091792&reply_comment_id=718191765424676¬if_id=1595625344126272¬if_t=group_comment&ref=notif is the Farcebok post. Closed group, so not only would OP have to join Facebook but in addition he'd have to ask Phil to give him membership if the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 19 hours ago, Iain_S said: https://www.facebook.com/groups/144684286108763/718173235426529/?comment_id=718187272091792&reply_comment_id=718191765424676¬if_id=1595625344126272¬if_t=group_comment&ref=notif is the Farcebok post. So no timer involved, just a supply from the starter to pull it in 18 hours ago, WotEver said: Closed group, so not only would OP have to join Facebook but in addition he'd have to ask Phil to give him membership if the group. I have just asked Phil if I can copy it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 58 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: So no timer involved, just a supply from the starter to pull it in I have just asked Phil if I can copy it If that is the case then using the starter for more than a very few seconds is likely to burn the solenoid out. That has implications for older engines and when bleeding/fault finding the fuel system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 55 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: If that is the case then using the starter for more than a very few seconds is likely to burn the solenoid out. That has implications for older engines and when bleeding/fault finding the fuel system. I guess the thought at that on starting the voltage may be down to 9ish volts and a coil designed for 14.4 volts may not pull in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy D'arth Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said: If that is the case then using the starter for more than a very few seconds is likely to burn the solenoid out. That has implications for older engines and when bleeding/fault finding the fuel system. It just has to be a one shot to pull it in, milliseconds. TD' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 4 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said: It just has to be a one shot to pull it in, milliseconds. TD' Not if you crank for 2 minutes or more to get the air out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy D'arth Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: Not if you crank for 2 minutes or more to get the air out No, once it is pulled in the current required to hold in is less. The problem would arise if it was repeatedly actuated in short bursts. TD' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy D'arth Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 I cannot read that circuit diagram snippet, where was the full diagram posted. TD' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedroinlondon Posted August 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 Hi guys Sorry I just realised I'd forgotten to update you all. It was the humble solenoid. Replaced and it's all is rainbows, bunnies and green fields again :) A two minutes internet order and a couple of bolts and that was it. Thanks a lot for all your help as usual. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedroinlondon Posted August 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 13 minutes ago, pedroinlondon said: Hi guys Sorry I just realised I'd forgotten to update you all. It was the humble solenoid. Replaced and it's all is rainbows, bunnies and green fields again A two minutes internet order and a couple of bolts and that was it. Thanks a lot for all your help as usual. 13 minutes ago, pedroinlondon said: Hi guys Sorry I just realised I'd forgotten to update you all. It was the humble solenoid. Replaced and it's all is rainbows, bunnies and green fields again A two minutes internet order and a couple of bolts and that was it. Thanks a lot for all your help as usual. I'd like to edit my original post, so to suggest to readers they may wish to skip the first pages so they don't panic lol. I cannot find an "edit" button. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted August 23, 2020 Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 Just now, pedroinlondon said: I cannot find an "edit" button. Am I missing something? Editing a post is an option that is only available for an hour or two after posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy D'arth Posted August 23, 2020 Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, pedroinlondon said: I'd like to edit my original post, so to suggest to readers they may wish to skip the first pages so they don't panic lol. I cannot find an "edit" button. Am I missing something? There is a forum time limit for editing. Thanks for the update. Most just disappear and leave the post hanging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedroinlondon Posted August 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said: There is a forum time limit for editing. Thanks for the update. Most just disappear and leave the post hanging. Thanks Tracy, that makes sense. Yes, half of the point of posting questions here is so that others can get answers. No that only solenoid connections cause white smoke of course Edited August 23, 2020 by pedroinlondon typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy D'arth Posted August 23, 2020 Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 Just now, pedroinlondon said: Thanks Tracy, that makes sense. Yes, half of the point of post questions is so that others here can get answers. No that only solenoid connections cause white smoke of course Did you replace the connector on the wiring? Was it available as a spare part if you did? Or had to find it elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eeyore Posted August 23, 2020 Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, pedroinlondon said: Hi guys Sorry I just realised I'd forgotten to update you all. It was the humble solenoid. Replaced and it's all is rainbows, bunnies and green fields again A two minutes internet order and a couple of bolts and that was it. Thanks a lot for all your help as usual. Sorry, I’m late to the party, but the cause of the failure is, as already mentioned, the lack of a timer. Anything other than an instant start when turning the key will result in the low resistance coil overheating. Being aware of the issue will allow you to “work around” the problem i.e never continue cranking if it doesn’t start instantly. It’s a cheap bodge by the mariniser that’s now costing owners a lot of money. A cheap work around would be to put a momentary contact switch between a switched ignition feed and the low resistance coil. Just tap the switch to set the solenoid after turning on the ignition. Edited August 23, 2020 by Eeyore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedroinlondon Posted September 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 On 23/08/2020 at 13:27, Tracy D'arth said: Did you replace the connector on the wiring? Was it available as a spare part if you did? Or had to find it elsewhere? I used one insulated straight Butt connector for each wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 On 23/08/2020 at 12:48, pedroinlondon said: Replaced and it's all is rainbows, bunnies and green fields again You're in London seeing these things? Are you in a boat on a river with tangerine trees and marmalade skies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedroinlondon Posted January 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 On 09/09/2020 at 15:15, Sea Dog said: You're in London seeing these things? Are you in a boat on a river with tangerine trees and marmalade skies? Today I can only see a misty sky upon a granite wind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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