The future of our canals?

[magnetman]

National Trust ?

 

River wey is quite plea$ant.

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

National Trust ?

 

River wey is quite plea$ant.

Avon Navigation Trust if we are lucky.  They are mostly keen boaters, and it shows.

 

Per lock mile their licence is far more expensive though.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by TheBiscuits
spellink

[George and Dragon]

4 hours ago, MartynG said:

A business  can't expect the customers to pay up front and then wait for the service and the product to improve.

 

The railways have done exactly that for as long as I can remember. The improvements are very slow appearing.

[Mike Todd]

56 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If the B Member is not happy that C&RT are operating correctly and meeting the requirements of the Articles of Association, he can 'sack' C&RT and hand the assets to another charity.

 

 

 

 

28.1 There shall be two classes of Members, as follows:
28.1.1 “A Members” shall be those individuals who serve on the Council, appointed in accordance with Article 29 and the Rules, and collectively the A Members shall be known as the Council.
28.1.2 The “B Member” who shall be the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs;

 

 

 

30. The B Member
30.1 Subject to Article 30.2, the B Member shall have the Special Powers prescribed in Article 30.4.

Invoking the Special Powers
30.2 The Special Powers may only be exercised by the B Member if they have been brought into effect as follows:
30.2.1 circumstances have arisen such that the B Member has become entitled to serve written notice on the Trust terminating its trusteeship of the Waterways Infrastructure Trust pursuant to the terms of the Trust Settlement (whether or not the B Member intends to, or does, serve such notice of termination of trusteeship on the Trust); and
30.2.2 the B Member has notified the Trust in writing of such circumstances and that the Special Powers are being brought into effect by the B Member.

Suspending the Special Powers
30.3 If the Special Powers have been brought into effect pursuant to Article 30.2 and the circumstances which led to the Special Powers being brought into effect are considered by the B Member to cease to exist, the B Member may determine that the Special Powers are no longer to be in effect, and shall notify the Trust in writing accordingly. The B Member shall have due regard to any request from the Trust that the Special Powers should cease to have effect pursuant to this Article 30.3. If the Special Powers cease to have effect pursuant to this Article 30.3 this shall not prevent the B Member from invoking the Special Powers again on future occasions in accordance with Article 30.2.

Exercise of the Special Powers
30.4 The Special Powers are as follows:
30.4.1 the B Member may remove any or all of the Trustees of the Trust and may make such replacement appointments as the B Member considers fit by serving notice on the Trust in writing (“the Trustee Replacement Power”);
30.4.2 the B Member may remove any or all of the A Members and may make such replacement appointments as the B Member considers fit by serving notice on the Trust in writing (“the A Member Replacement Power”); and
30.4.3 the B Member may direct that the Protected Assets (subject to attendant liabilities) shall be transferred to another institution which is regarded as charitable under the law of England and Wales with objects compatible with those of the Trust or to be held upon trust for the objects of the Trust by a person or institution which has been appointed as trustee of the Waterways Infrastructure Trust on such terms as the B Member thinks fit (subject to the requirements of charity law) (“the Transfer of Assets Power”).

30.5 The B Member may exercise the Trustee Replacement Power at any time once the Special Powers have been brought into effect pursuant to Article 30.2. In addition the B Member may exercise either the A Member Replacement Power or the Transfer of Assets Power, but he or she shall not be permitted to exercise both the A Member Replacement Power and the Transfer of Assets Power simultaneously (as the A Member Replacement Power and the Transfer of Assets Power are intended to provide alternative options for the B Member to facilitate the ongoing application of the Protected Assets in furtherance of the objects for the public benefit).

30.6 For the avoidance of doubt, the exercise of the Special Powers by the B Member shall not be subject to any rights or powers or require the consent of any of the A Members, but in determining whether the B member has become entitled to exercise the Special Powers or in exercising them, the B Member must act in the way that he or she reasonably and in good faith considers to best further the objects of the Trust for public benefit.

Under what circumstances can you imagine that the B Member will replace CaRT by something that has a more generous funding plan?

[Detling]

2 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

it is Government policy that by 2050 no boats in UK waters (inland or coastal) will be allowed to have Diesel / Petrol ICE engines

 

 

Is this really true? How are they going to be able to achieve this - charging points? How could you run a boat in the winter without diesel/petrol?

 

Use a hydrogen fuel cell and fit hydrogen tanks on the boat, this will reduce the draft solving the dredging problem.

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Under what circumstances can you imagine that the B Member will replace CaRT by something that has a more generous funding plan?

1) If C&RT are trading whilst insolvent.

2) Not meeting the agreed targets in the Articles of Association

3) Complaints from the boating organisations re lack of maintenance

 

Replacing with someone like the National Trust would not require any 'more generous funding', maybe even less funding

 

The National Trust’s income rose by almost £40m last year to a record high of £634.3m, the charity’s latest accounts show.

The accounts for the year to 28 February 2019, which were published today, also show that expenditure rose to £653.1m from £605.5m the year before.

An increase of almost £15m in legacies – up from £51.9m to £66.5m – and a large rise in membership income, from £219.8m to £243.4m, were major reasons for the rise in income, the accounts show.

Membership levels rose by approximately 400,000 to 5.6 million, with 26.9 million visits made to National Trust properties over the course of the year.

The rise in membership levels comes after the introduction of two member schemes, with one leading to 28,000 under-15s joining the charity for £10 a year, and another helping 26,000 people adopt a free essential companion card for visitors in need of care or support.

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Detling said:

Use a hydrogen fuel cell and fit hydrogen tanks on the boat

That is one of the favoured options, the total list :

 

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[Mike Todd]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

1) If C&RT are trading whilst insolvent.

2) Not meeting the agreed targets in the Articles of Association

3) Complaints from the boating organisations re lack of maintenance

 

Replacing with someone like the National Trust would not require any 'more generous funding', maybe even less funding

 

The National Trust’s income rose by almost £40m last year to a record high of £634.3m, the charity’s latest accounts show.

The accounts for the year to 28 February 2019, which were published today, also show that expenditure rose to £653.1m from £605.5m the year before.

An increase of almost £15m in legacies – up from £51.9m to £66.5m – and a large rise in membership income, from £219.8m to £243.4m, were major reasons for the rise in income, the accounts show.

Membership levels rose by approximately 400,000 to 5.6 million, with 26.9 million visits made to National Trust properties over the course of the year.

The rise in membership levels comes after the introduction of two member schemes, with one leading to 28,000 under-15s joining the charity for £10 a year, and another helping 26,000 people adopt a free essential companion card for visitors in need of care or support.

That is one of the favoured options, the total list :

 

 

 

 

I cannot yet see the comparison - the option has been discussed here before without any evidence that it might work.

 

The NT have a lot of visitor attractions which have quite steep entrance charges, Perhaps CaRT should seek legislation to remove the right of cyclists and walkers to use the towpaths without charge (and add in boaters while at it). They also have long had the option (as I understand it) of rejecting offers of properties that will not make them money. Perhaps CaRT should return to the B Member all those canals that are losing money. 

 

NT Car Parks are also steep - any promotion of a NT site based on the admission charge significantly understates the cost of the visit as most involve driving to them. The volunteers are generally involved in 'nice' tasks like being a guide, serving tea and weeding the gardens. The Volly Locky scheme for canals has had a mixed response with not all boaters seeing it as a plus whilst the Vollies do not have a specific role (as far as I can see) of talking to gongoozlers and explaining the history and how it all works.

 

Membership is really a season ticket scheme and CaRT already have that for boaters (ie the annual licence) Do you really think that there are hordes of non-boaters queuing up to become Friends - paying expensively for the occasional towpath walk? CaRT have already found how challenging it is to find Friends on little more than an altruistic basis. The rise in NT membership is largely down to more people (pre-COVID) having time to go out to visitor attractions.

 

 

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, MartynG said:

When did the price of diesel increase above petrol (due to duty increases)? I think it was in the 1990's?

I thought it was the late 2000's  Say 2007 or thereabouts. Frustratingly, I can't easily find it on Google.

[peterboat]

32 minutes ago, Detling said:

Use a hydrogen fuel cell and fit hydrogen tanks on the boat, this will reduce the draft solving the dredging problem.

Thought hydrogen tanks were heavy?

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

The rise in NT membership is largely down to more people (pre-COVID) having time to go out to visitor attractions.

I don't think that C19 would impact their membership figures in the quoted 2018/19 financial year.

 

Much else of what you say is true, but with experience of charity fund raising I'd think that the NT would be far more successful that C&RT.

2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Thought hydrogen tanks were heavy?

They are, but the weight of the tank is more than made up for by the lightness of the Hydrogen.

(Hydrogen is 1/29th the weight of air).

 

?

[peterboat]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I don't think that C19 would impact their membership figures in the quoted 2018/19 financial year.

 

Much else of what you say is true, but with experience of charity fund raising I'd think that the NT would be far more successful that C&RT.

They are, but the weight of the tank is more than made up for by the lightness of the Hydrogen.

(Hydrogen is 1/29th the weight of air).

 

?

??????

[Momac]

35 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I thought it was the late 2000's  Say 2007 or thereabouts. Frustratingly, I can't easily find it on Google.

This is what I am thinking of......but perhaps despite the duty increases diesel remained  cheaper at the pump until some later date ? 

http://www.forecourtassist.co.uk/why-diesel-costs-more-than-petrol.html

''Despite these reductions in sulphur emissions, standard diesel fuel is still taxed more heavily than petrol. In 1994, duty on diesel and unleaded petrol (ULP) was the same, however from 1996 through to 1998 diesel was around a penny per litre more expensive. In 1999 it became three pence per litre.''

.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

3 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

You may well be right, but what is your solution?

I get mildly annoyed when people say to me "could you do better" or "what is your solution" when I produce some figures or express an opinion.

As one of the few boaters that took the trouble to express my concerns to government regarding the "dumping" of British Waterways on the third sector to save money,  I try to refrain from "I told you so" when topics like this come up.

 

One has to remember that, after CRT's formation, most boaters were supportive or, at least, willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If the B Member is not happy that C&RT are operating correctly and meeting the requirements of the Articles of Association, he can 'sack' C&RT and hand the assets to another charity.

 

 

 

 

28.1 There shall be two classes of Members, as follows:
28.1.1 “A Members” shall be those individuals who serve on the Council, appointed in accordance with Article 29 and the Rules, and collectively the A Members shall be known as the Council.
28.1.2 The “B Member” who shall be the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs;

 

 

 

30. The B Member
30.1 Subject to Article 30.2, the B Member shall have the Special Powers prescribed in Article 30.4.

Invoking the Special Powers
30.2 The Special Powers may only be exercised by the B Member if they have been brought into effect as follows:
30.2.1 circumstances have arisen such that the B Member has become entitled to serve written notice on the Trust terminating its trusteeship of the Waterways Infrastructure Trust pursuant to the terms of the Trust Settlement (whether or not the B Member intends to, or does, serve such notice of termination of trusteeship on the Trust); and
30.2.2 the B Member has notified the Trust in writing of such circumstances and that the Special Powers are being brought into effect by the B Member.

Suspending the Special Powers
30.3 If the Special Powers have been brought into effect pursuant to Article 30.2 and the circumstances which led to the Special Powers being brought into effect are considered by the B Member to cease to exist, the B Member may determine that the Special Powers are no longer to be in effect, and shall notify the Trust in writing accordingly. The B Member shall have due regard to any request from the Trust that the Special Powers should cease to have effect pursuant to this Article 30.3. If the Special Powers cease to have effect pursuant to this Article 30.3 this shall not prevent the B Member from invoking the Special Powers again on future occasions in accordance with Article 30.2.

Exercise of the Special Powers
30.4 The Special Powers are as follows:
30.4.1 the B Member may remove any or all of the Trustees of the Trust and may make such replacement appointments as the B Member considers fit by serving notice on the Trust in writing (“the Trustee Replacement Power”);
30.4.2 the B Member may remove any or all of the A Members and may make such replacement appointments as the B Member considers fit by serving notice on the Trust in writing (“the A Member Replacement Power”); and
30.4.3 the B Member may direct that the Protected Assets (subject to attendant liabilities) shall be transferred to another institution which is regarded as charitable under the law of England and Wales with objects compatible with those of the Trust or to be held upon trust for the objects of the Trust by a person or institution which has been appointed as trustee of the Waterways Infrastructure Trust on such terms as the B Member thinks fit (subject to the requirements of charity law) (“the Transfer of Assets Power”).

30.5 The B Member may exercise the Trustee Replacement Power at any time once the Special Powers have been brought into effect pursuant to Article 30.2. In addition the B Member may exercise either the A Member Replacement Power or the Transfer of Assets Power, but he or she shall not be permitted to exercise both the A Member Replacement Power and the Transfer of Assets Power simultaneously (as the A Member Replacement Power and the Transfer of Assets Power are intended to provide alternative options for the B Member to facilitate the ongoing application of the Protected Assets in furtherance of the objects for the public benefit).

30.6 For the avoidance of doubt, the exercise of the Special Powers by the B Member shall not be subject to any rights or powers or require the consent of any of the A Members, but in determining whether the B member has become entitled to exercise the Special Powers or in exercising them, the B Member must act in the way that he or she reasonably and in good faith considers to best further the objects of the Trust for public benefit.

It is unlikely that this would be executed prior to Section 11 which allows Defra to reduce or claw back grant.

Bearing in mind Defra's attack on CRT's ability to maintain its safety critical reservoirs, I made the following information request -

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/steps_taken_by_defra_to_ensure_s


 

[Allan(nb Albert)]

23 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

It is unlikely that this would be executed prior to Section 11 which allows Defra to reduce or claw back grant.

Bearing in mind Defra's attack on CRT's ability to maintain its safety critical reservoirs, I made the following information request -

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/steps_taken_by_defra_to_ensure_s


 

Perhaps instead of asking me "what is your solution", boatera should be questioning  why those that represent them are not asking these awkward questions.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Perhaps instead of asking me "what is your solution", boatera should be questioning  why those that represent them are not asking these awkward questions.

Did you really just post something, and then challenge yourself regarding what you had just posted?

[Allan(nb Albert)]

4 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Did you really just post something, and then challenge yourself regarding what you had just posted?

You tell me ...

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

You tell me ...

Tell you what?

 

I asked a simple question. 

 

Edit - no dont bother Ive just clicked the link in your signature, which led to a closed down web site.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by The Happy Nomad

[Allan(nb Albert)]

3 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Tell you what?

 

I asked a simple question. 

Your question was "Did you really just post something, and then challenge yourself regarding what you had just posted?
I suggested you tell me as I did not understand it ...

[Guest]

Just now, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Your question was "Did you really just post something, and then challenge yourself regarding what you had just posted?
I suggested you tell me as I did not understand it ...

Well it was a question that asked did you immediately challenge yourself about something you had just posted, because you quoted yourself?

 

Yes or no?

 

While you are on though, what is the deal with the link in your signature?

 

 

 

 

[Allan(nb Albert)]

1 hour ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

It is unlikely that this would be executed prior to Section 11 which allows Defra to reduce or claw back grant.

Bearing in mind Defra's attack on CRT's ability to maintain its safety critical reservoirs, I made the following information request -

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/steps_taken_by_defra_to_ensure_s


 

It will be interesting to see if Defra have used CRT's poor performance regarding reservoir maintenance in order to reduce grant.

[Guest]

Now you've done it again.

 

You appear to be having a conversation with yourself.

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by The Happy Nomad

[Allan(nb Albert)]

3 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Well it was a question that asked did you immediately challenge yourself about something you had just posted, because you quoted yourself?

 

Yes or no?

 

While you are on though, what is the deal with the link in your signature?

 

 

 

 

Sorry to say but you have just repeated the question that I do not understand.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Sorry to say but you have just repeated the question that I do not understand.

You appear to be talking to yourself.

 

And the floater link? Did the floater sink?

Edited July 7, 2020 by The Happy Nomad

[Allan(nb Albert)]

5 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Now you've done it again.

 

You appear to be having a conversation with yourself.

 

 

 

Not true as you have seen fit to join in ...