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The future of our canals?


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8 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

How do see the future of our canals

After about 30 years I have decided to leave the canals and go 'back to the sea' - I see the future use of the canals as being increasing difficult as the costs rise and the infrastructure continues to fall apart.

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I reckon when the maintenance problems kick in properly the system will get split up and individual areas franchised out to private operators. Probably marina companies. 

 

Desirable areas stay open subject to extra charges and the less popular bits close, again. 

 

Keep an eye on Ting Dene. 

 

Not a wholesale selloff but bit by bit private management. 

 

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1 minute ago, magnetman said:

I reckon when the maintenance problems kick in properly the system will get split up and individual areas franchised out to private operators. Probably marina companies. 

 

Desirable areas stay open subject to extra charges and the less popular bits close, again. 

 

Keep an eye on Ting Dene. 

 

Not a wholesale selloff but bit by bit private management. 

 

And those private operators being more property developers than navigation authorities. Building residential and commercial property with adjacent water features of varying degrees of navigability.

On the plus side, there may be a resurgence of canal societies taking over some canals and keeping them navigable. A joined up network will likely be a thing of the past. Already, planning a summers cruise is becoming difficult.

Jen

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6 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

After about 30 years I have decided to leave the canals and go 'back to the sea' - I see the future use of the canals as being increasing difficult as the costs rise and the infrastructure continues to fall apart.

Well I suppose there isn't much infrastructure to worry about in the open ocean! :)

 

Looking at the other replies so far I'm getting the impression that not many of us hold out much hope for the future of our canals regards boating.

 

Maybe ANT should take over, at least they have the word 'navigation' in the name.

 

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12 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

Well I suppose there isn't much infrastructure to worry about in the open ocean! :)

 

And no licence, BSS or even insurance to pay.

 

13 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

Maybe ANT should take over, at least they have the word 'navigation' in the name.

 

 

You mean as compared to the Cyclists & Ramblers Trust ?

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I sometimes wonder how long a preserved "thing" can be kept going - as a general rule most preserved boats, trains, canals and railways have been in that category for no more than 50 years, up until then they were being maintained (or not) for their original purpose. How long can we keep a town class butty or a Stanier 8F going? 50 years? 100? 500? The infrastructure should last longer but how long? 

 

All the infrastructure is now 52 years older than when the 1968 Transport Act was passed - most of it has become 200 years old in that period, way, way past it's original design life, hence the apparent increasing failure rate, for example, two of Marple Locks getting narrower in short order - funds are reducing as need increases with age. 

 

I don't really see the management model as the main threat, I think the wider aspirations of society will be a bigger issue - we hear enough about the problems of changing the entire national fleet and supply system to white diesel - that's nothing compared to decarbonisation, and there are those who would see the loss of the leisure boat industry, or it's gentrification as boats become scarcer and thus more expensive, as a "price worth paying". Then there is local environmental issues - will there be pressure to sever navigations to halt the spread of invasive species? Before you laugh it is a serious issue for restoration.

 

And what if people stop wanting to go boating? about 20 years ago BW and the industry based their model on early retirees with large pension pots making "a progressive journey through the system" on brand new boats - now the growth area is liveaboards travelling shorter distances often on second hand boats, will the next change be no boating at all? Or will it catch on again with small fibreglass boats making a comeback? 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

After about 30 years I have decided to leave the canals and go 'back to the sea' - I see the future use of the canals as being increasing difficult as the costs rise and the infrastructure continues to fall apart.

 

That pretty much sums up where we are at as well after 50 years for me and 30 for SWMBO - rivers for us from now on - possibly with a bit of estuary - we like a bit more space(width) and a bit more light with windows which simply wouldn't be safe on the canals any more.

 

As to the future I suspect less maintainance, more antisocial behaviour, fewer enthusiasts, fewer proper boats and loads more linear housing and "entitled" boaters............and we don't want to stick around to see it 

Edited by Halsey
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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

And no licence, BSS or even insurance to pay.

 

 

 

Aren't harbour fees getting more and more expensive though? Having wondered about doing similar, we have heard that even when anchoring off, they come out to you to charge you!

 

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7 minutes ago, wandering snail said:

Aren't harbour fees getting more and more expensive though? Having wondered about doing similar, we have heard that even when anchoring off, they come out to you to charge you!

 

No - never paid mooring fees on 'visitors buoys', but obviously do (£20-£30 night) for a pontoon mooring with services when required.

For example taking a visitors mooring on a pontoon in Plymouth gives you a dedicated bathroom (with bath, shower, toilet, & basin) non of this 'communal toilets' malarky.

 

There are instances of charges for buoys, but there is obviously a cost in laying and maintaining them - we usually anchor if not going on a pontoon.

 

Visitors mooring buoy at Spurn Point in the mouth of the Humber.

 

 

IMG_20160723_052113.jpg

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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16 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

Mind you, to quote a certain telecoms company - the future's bright, the future's orange....

 

Orange canal 2.jpg

Who were then merged to create EE who were in turn bought out by BT...

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This debate has been going on since Before we got our first boat in 1966. Then it was likely that the Southern part of the Oxford would be closed as was the K and A Avon Stratford and many other waterways. We joined the IWA and various canal restoration societies to campaign for the preservation and retention of the system. It worked to a great extent that you now have the existing system. BWB under Sir Frank Price became a property company selling off or developing any good bit of real estate. Nobody was interested in the long term maintenance of the system but we made enough noise to keep it going. 
Now We no longer have a direct interest in British canals having spent 18 years on the continent and are  boat less. 
What I see as an observer is miles of live aboard moorings, moorings in lock pounds, marinas full of expensive narrow boats which never seem to move (thank goodness) and I wonder what pleasure people get from all the queuing at locks and looking for a mooring and then being only able to stop for 2 days. Having said that it’s not surprising t as there is lots to enjoy on the canals and having a boat.

What does the future hold I guess much of the same with the system being run like the fire brigade, responding to problems rather than Planning to eliminate them . There will be more diversity officers and well being managers as it’s a good image on tv but unfortunately more use of outside contractors.

Edited by Dav and Pen
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Running on from what Alan said. I was wondering how long you could live out in open sea on a sailing boat?

 

Drinking water can be made from sea water using a desalinator and there are plenty of fish in the sea (if you can find where they are). Shelter would be the boat presumbly in a fairly warm climate. Solar panels to provide electrical power (as diesel would eventually run out). No toilet issues to worry about.

 

The main problems would be health and equipment failure. Stormy weather could also be an issue. So at some point you may be forced to make a trip back inland.

 

It wouid be a very solitary life (unless you take someone with you). The dolphins and whales probably make better company anyway. :)

 

I'm not sure it's everyones cup of tea but an interesting and possibly rewarding lifestyle. Someone must have written a book about it.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rambling Boater said:

Running on from what Alan said. I was wondering how long you could live out in open sea on a sailing boat?

 

Drinking water can be made from sea water using a desalinator and there are plenty of fish in the sea (if you can find where they are). Shelter would be the boat presumbly in a fairly warm climate. Solar panels to provide electrical power (as diesel would eventually run out). No toilet issues to worry about.

 

The main problems would be health and equipment failure. Stormy weather could also be an issue. So at some point you may be forced to make a trip back inland.

 

It wouid be a very solitary life (unless you take someone with you). The dolphins and whales probably make better company anyway. :)

 

I'm not sure it's everyones cup of tea but an interesting and possibly rewarding lifestyle. Someone must have written a book about it.

 

 

 

 

 

Scurvy! You'd eventually run in to the vitamin C deficiency problem old time sailing ships did when they ran out of citrus juice. You'll run out of rum for your grog too. Fortunately, your crew will be too listless from the scurvy to mutiny over the lack of rum.

 

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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I'm sticking my neck out here and think the canals best days are to come. As international travel becomes more troublesome and the world becomes less stable I think people will want to holiday in their own country. Canals offer a really good alternative where the journey is the holiday rather than just a part of it - no problems finding what to do each day. I have had several recent conversations with people who have never considered narrowboats/canals but as I describe/show videos (not in a anorak way!) now want to try it. The UK weather is also improving so when we have longer hot spells people may question queueing in the airport!  The UK canal system is USP of the UK so I can see international travel this way as foreigners come to try...

 

It always amazes me people want to fly to sandpits full of crowds when they haven't seen their own beautiful country yet.

Edited by robtheplod
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1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Scurvy! You'd eventually run in to the vitamin C deficiency problem old time sailing ships did when they ran out of citrus juice. You'll run out of rum for your grog too. Fortunately, your crew will be too listless from the scurvy to mutiny over the lack of rum.

 

:D He he, so much negativity.

 

Good point though, is there not enough Vitamin C in fish then? Also good point about grog, maybe some kind of beer made from fermented fish?

 

I did think of another vital requirement, WiFi. Elon is working on it apparently, the only problem is that his solution may make the sextant unusable.

 

Edited by Rambling Boater
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Difficult to say really. We hire boated in the 80's when I was a nipper. I've been extensively cruising the network for the last 3 years on my own boat, and I've yet to encounter anything as bad as the doom and gloom I read about on the Internet. 

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2 hours ago, Rambling Boater said:

Running on from what Alan said. I was wondering how long you could live out in open sea on a sailing boat?

 

Drinking water can be made from sea water using a desalinator and there are plenty of fish in the sea (if you can find where they are). Shelter would be the boat presumbly in a fairly warm climate. Solar panels to provide electrical power (as diesel would eventually run out). No toilet issues to worry about.

 

The main problems would be health and equipment failure. Stormy weather could also be an issue. So at some point you may be forced to make a trip back inland.

 

It wouid be a very solitary life (unless you take someone with you). The dolphins and whales probably make better company anyway. :)

 

I'm not sure it's everyones cup of tea but an interesting and possibly rewarding lifestyle. Someone must have written a book about it.

 

 

 

 

 

AND...........where would the dog go for a pee???

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44 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

I'm sticking my neck out here and think the canals best days are to come. As international travel becomes more troublesome and the world becomes less stable I think people will want to holiday in their own country. Canals offer a really good alternative where the journey is the holiday rather than just a part of it - no problems finding what to do each day. I have had several recent conversations with people who have never considered narrowboats/canals but as I describe/show videos (not in a anorak way!) now want to try it. The UK weather is also improving so when we have longer hot spells people may question queueing in the airport!  The UK canal system is USP of the UK so I can see international travel this way as foreigners come to try...

 

It always amazes me people want to fly to sandpits full of crowds when they haven't seen their own beautiful country yet.

I truly hope you are right BUT from our direct experience over the last 2-5 years in particular its not on the internet its reality............and getting worse

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