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Email from C&RT about works in London


Graham and Jo

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10 minutes ago, manxmike said:

Please don't mention brown envelopes and used notes of different denominations.

 

Of course not.  Non-executive directorships of the bid winning company after the politicians have left public life is the modern way ...

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1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

Would I be right in think that that expression has previously been considered against the forum rules>

If so, sorry, BUT-------------------------

 

Wiki Quote

 

Pikey's most common contemporary use is not as a term for the Romani ethnic group, but as a catch-all phrase to refer to people, of any ethnic group, who travel around with no fixed abode. Among English Romani Gypsies the term pikey refers to a Traveller who is not of Romani descent. It may also refer to a member who has been cast out of the family.[15]

In the late 20th and early 21st centuries, the definition became even looser and is sometimes used to refer to a wide section of the (generally urban) underclass of the country (in England generally known as chavs), or merely a person of any social class who "lives on the cheap" such as a bohemian.  It is also used as an adjective, e.g. "a pikey estate" or "a pikey pub". Following complaints from Travellers' groups about racism, when the term was used by presenter Jeremy Clarkson as a pun for Pike's Peak in the television programme Top Gear, the Editorial Standards Committee of the BBC Trust ruled that, in this instance, the term merely meant "cheap".[16] In doing so, it justified the ascribed meaning by quoting the Wikipedia article for the term.[17]

Negative English attitudes towards "pikeys" were a running theme in the 2000 Guy Ritchie film Snatch.

In 2003 the Firle Bonfire Society burned an effigy of a family of gypsies inside a caravan after travellers damaged local land.[18] The number plate on the caravan read "P1KEY". A storm of protests and accusations of racism rapidly followed.[19][20][21] Twelve members of the society were arrested but the Crown Prosecution Service decided that there was insufficient evidence to proceed on a charge of "incitement to racial hatred".[22]

The Oxford History of English refers to:

young people who use charver or pikey to identify a contemporary style of dress or general demeanour suggest an aimless "street" lifestyle, unaware of the Romani origin of the first or of connotation with "gypsy" of the second.

Pikey, formed from turnpike roads, as along with pikee and piker been used in the South East [of England] especially since the mid-19th-century to refer to itinerant people of all kinds and been used by travelling people to refer to those of low caste. Scally a corresponding label originating in the North West of England was taken up by the media and several websites, only to be superseded by chav.

A very recent survey has unearthed 127 synonyms, with ned favoured in Scotland, charver in North East England and pikey across the South [of England]

No offence intended. Are we just getting massively over PC?  I've been called worse both here and elsewhere. 

TD'

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18 hours ago, Alway Swilby said:

But they wouldn't have upgraded the towpath afterwards! Canal & River Trust has agreed with National Grid that the towpath surface will be upgraded and, where possible, widened to a minimum width of two metres.

How lovely. A nice wide tarmac towing path surface so that idiot cyclists can display even more idiotic behaviour and achieve a higher average speed for the journey. Screw everyone else just blast along as if you are the only person in the world. 

 

I'd prefer to see the towing paths done by the pikeys to be honest. 

 

High speed cycling wrecks the amenity value of canalside walkways. It needs knocking on the head or bad things will happen. 

 

Edited by magnetman
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19 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

If so, sorry, BUT-------------------------

 

Wiki Quote

 

Pikey's most common contemporary use is not as a term for the Romani ethnic group, but as a catch-all phrase to refer to people, of any ethnic group, who travel around with no fixed abode. Among English Romani Gypsies the term pikey refers to a Traveller who is not of Romani descent. It may also refer to a member who has been cast out of the family.[15]

In the late 20th and early 21st centuries, the definition became even looser and is sometimes used to refer to a wide section of the (generally urban) underclass of the country (in England generally known as chavs), or merely a person of any social class who "lives on the cheap" such as a bohemian.  It is also used as an adjective, e.g. "a pikey estate" or "a pikey pub". Following complaints from Travellers' groups about racism, when the term was used by presenter Jeremy Clarkson as a pun for Pike's Peak in the television programme Top Gear, the Editorial Standards Committee of the BBC Trust ruled that, in this instance, the term merely meant "cheap".[16] In doing so, it justified the ascribed meaning by quoting the Wikipedia article for the term.[17]

Negative English attitudes towards "pikeys" were a running theme in the 2000 Guy Ritchie film Snatch.

In 2003 the Firle Bonfire Society burned an effigy of a family of gypsies inside a caravan after travellers damaged local land.[18] The number plate on the caravan read "P1KEY". A storm of protests and accusations of racism rapidly followed.[19][20][21] Twelve members of the society were arrested but the Crown Prosecution Service decided that there was insufficient evidence to proceed on a charge of "incitement to racial hatred".[22]

The Oxford History of English refers to:

young people who use charver or pikey to identify a contemporary style of dress or general demeanour suggest an aimless "street" lifestyle, unaware of the Romani origin of the first or of connotation with "gypsy" of the second.

Pikey, formed from turnpike roads, as along with pikee and piker been used in the South East [of England] especially since the mid-19th-century to refer to itinerant people of all kinds and been used by travelling people to refer to those of low caste. Scally a corresponding label originating in the North West of England was taken up by the media and several websites, only to be superseded by chav.

A very recent survey has unearthed 127 synonyms, with ned favoured in Scotland, charver in North East England and pikey across the South [of England]

No offence intended. Are we just getting massively over PC?  I've been called worse both here and elsewhere. 

TD'

I couldn’t care either way. 
But it is derogatory. 
 

The test:
would you call anyone a pikey when face to face? 
 

I like the words Gypo and Didycoy  

But I’d expect a punch in the head for using them in front of gypsies and travellers. 
 

 

But I do think you’ve got the right idea. 
Give the contract to the pikeys.

Job done. 
I’d love to see some pikey vans doing the rounds with ‘life is better by water’ written in them. 
 

Edited by Goliath
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3 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I couldn’t care either way. 
But it is derogatory. 
 

The test:
would you call anyone a pikey when face to face? 
 

I like the words Gypo and Didycoy  

But I’d expect a punch in the head for using them in front of gypsies and travellers. 

Certainly would! That's why my face is so ugly!

This part of Cheshire is full of them. Its untaxed, uninsured, mobile phone numbers only land round here. Trailer trash seems a bit harsh on those that drag tin loos around behind their Range Rovers, but behind a Transit, maybe.

TD'

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9 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Certainly would! That's why my face is so ugly!

I have a suggestion for you.   Pop up to Appleby during the Horse Fair week and have a walk down the main street shouting such words.

 

You wouldn't need to worry about an ugly face, but do make sure you life insurance is paid up.   They bring a lot of money to the town along with a few problems admittedly, but no more than some of the post lockdown invasions of the Lakes.

 

You would probably find a lot of the locals take exception to such  terms as well as the travellers.

Edited by Jerra
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1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Certainly would! That's why my face is so ugly!

This part of Cheshire is full of them. Its untaxed, uninsured, mobile phone numbers only land round here. Trailer trash seems a bit harsh on those that drag tin loos around behind their Range Rovers, but behind a Transit, maybe.

TD'

fair do’s ?

 

What bit of Cheshire’s that then?

It ain’t Tarporley 

 

You’re not up on the borders are you?

By Kidsgrove? 


 

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2 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I have a suggestion for you.   Pop up to Appleby during the Horse Fair week and have a walk down the main street shouting such words.

 

You wouldn't need to worry about an ugly face, but do make sure you life insurance is paid up.   They bring a lot of money to the town along with a few problems admittedly, but no more than some of the post lockdown invasions of the Lakes.

 

You would probably find a lot of the locals take exception to such  terms as well as the travellers.

Been there but wouldn't "Shout!" at anyone. I don't have life insurance, its the least important thing in life and totally useless in death.

  Some of the Appleby locals don't like the horse fair. 

You can put your suggestions elsewhere, all are entitled to their beliefs, preferences and opinions. Being PC is not in my bailiwick, having a sense of humour and preserving my way of life, moral responsibility and culture against all odds is.

TD'

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2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Been there but wouldn't "Shout!" at anyone. I don't have life insurance, its the least important thing in life and totally useless in death.

  Some of the Appleby locals don't like the horse fair. 

You can put your suggestions elsewhere, all are entitled to their beliefs, preferences and opinions. Being PC is not in my bailiwick, having a sense of humour and preserving my way of life, moral responsibility and culture against all odds is.

TD'

I suspect I know marginally more locals than you do living where I do.   Even those who don't like them I have never heard use the words Pikey etc.

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10 minutes ago, Goliath said:

fair do’s ?

 

What bit of Cheshire’s that then?

It ain’t Tarporley 

 

You’re not up on the borders are you?

By Kidsgrove? 


 

Not telling, I keep moving just in case some folk here come looking for us because they get their knickers in a twist! Lets just say its an ex industrial area bordering on agriculture and will be destroyed if HS2 goes through.

TD'

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3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Not telling, I keep moving just in case some folk here come looking for us because they get their knickers in a twist! Lets just say its an ex industrial area bordering on agriculture and will be destroyed if HS2 goes through.

TD'

You could always hide out in the secret bunker

No one would know.
 

It’s not like there’s a big F off sign saying where it is.  

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Are we allowed to mention that?  Its local.

I know where the big one is under Manchester Piccadilly, I worked in there, now that one is still secret!

[I have signed the act.]  Ooops, who's that knocking on the door?

TD'

 

Sorry mods, somehow we seem to be way off topic.

Edited by Tracy D'arth
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4 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Are we allowed to mention that?  Its local.

I know where the big one is under Manchester Piccadilly, I worked in there, now that one is still secret!

[I have signed the act.]  Ooops, who's that knocking on the door?

TD'

 

Sorry mods, somehow we seem to be way off topic.

Off topic with the mods is ok. 
Spelling, bad grammar and calling them out is not allowed. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Goliath said:

Off topic with the mods is ok. 
Spelling, bad grammar and calling them out is not allowed. 

 

 

But what about making remarks about travellers?  I would guess that some of the mods may be of the wandering itinerant persuasion.

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2 minutes ago, Goliath said:

?

surely not?

 

you're not suggesting funny handshake or old school tie?

 

A funny handshake is very unlikely to apply to me. Can't ride goats.

Please don't talk about tying, it gets me aroused.

Is it a sexist occupation/ position? Can I apply without being vetted? Are there any restrictions on membership like in a golf club or sauna?

TD'

 

Boys, we are so far off topic now, its getting unreal. Is it because we are all so bored witless?  [ Yes, Witless I said ]

Lets go cruising instead, oh sorry, some can't, yet. Yaky Da.

 

TD'

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59 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

A funny handshake is very unlikely to apply to me. Can't ride goats.

Please don't talk about tying, it gets me aroused.

Is it a sexist occupation/ position? Can I apply without being vetted? Are there any restrictions on membership like in a golf club or sauna?

TD'

 

Boys, we are so far off topic now, its getting unreal. Is it because we are all so bored witless?  [ Yes, Witless I said ]

Lets go cruising instead, oh sorry, some can't, yet. Yaky Da.

 

TD'

I’ve been publand 

that’s my excuse

 

and it feels great ? 

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I asked the question earlier because several years ago I had a rather unpleasant run-in with a mod that gained a reputation for being somewhat over the top. (they ceased to be a mod soon after, I believe) That mod went, in my view, to over extreme lengths to deem one of my  posts 'racialist' (against Irish people IIRC) As it happens such an accusation could, in my other life, have caused significant problems and I do have specific reason to be very aware of the Equality Act.

 

Gypsy and Traveller are Protected Characteristics under that act (see https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/protected-characteristics/gypsies-and-travellers-race-discrimination/) and hence making statements that appear (to the man on the top of the Clapham Omnibus) to be either derogatory or discriminatory is grounds for legal action by the person concerned - or public authorities if being made publicly and generally.

 

In the context we have been discussing, the term pikey is being used to single out a group that falls within the Protected Characteristic above. Arguably the intent was to imply that such people can be expected to do a substandard job and to fall short of their contractual commitments. If that argument were sustained then it would be Discrimination under the Act.

 

It is not a defence that the context is humorous or that no-one reading it would take offence as it is well established that this is often what sustains discriminatory tendencies. 

 

On the other hand, https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/man-fat-ginger-pikey-salad-dodger-boss-race-discrimination-claim-lose-traveller-san-francisco-london-a8154001.html seems to show that a case brought by an individual does have to demonstrate that such a term is used with intent, knowing that the individual has a Protected Characteristic.

 

BLM also shows that we still have a long way to go even in so-called civilised societies, to accept that all people, whatever their origins, are entitled to a fair deal.

 

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32 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

 

 

Arguably the intent was to imply that such people can be expected to do a substandard job and to fall short of their contractual commitments. If that argument were sustained then it would be Discrimination under the Act.

 

 

 

Taken on board, thank you.

 

However I was claiming totally the opposite. Instead of 2 years disruption removing cables for scrap, I was inferring that a workforce of travelling men in white vans with disc cutters could have had all the scrap out of the towpaths in a weekend.

They are expert in recycling copper by cable stripping as illustrated by the piles of PVC insulation strippings flytipped in the hedgerows and farm gateways around here weekly.

Credit where it is due, they certainly know how to remove things in the least possible time, such as complete power units from Transit vans by chaining them to a lamp post and reversing flat out.

 

It was not I who suggested the the towpath reinstatement would be substandard. The boys from the blackstuff are well known.

 

I feel that our society has become far too sensitive about discussing sub sets of our multicultural country.

Telling jokes about others has been considered by all to be humorous for generations.

When I was involved with committees in Northern Ireland the best jokes were told by and about my Irish companions, usually lubricated with lots of laughing ale.

 

This will be my last and final comment in this thread.

 

TD'

 

 

 

Edited by Tracy D'arth
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