Gas regulations for caravans

[haggis]

This a caravan related question but I am sure someone on here will know the answer - where is Mike the Boilerman when you need him?  I know and understand the reasons for the regulations about storing gas cylinders on boats and I wondered why similar regulations don't apply to  touring caravans.  Many makes of  tourer have a big locker at the front where the gas cylinder (s) are stored along with all sorts of other items - spare wheel, jack,leg winder, electric cable etc  and although the cylinder(s) are secured, there is nothing to stop two metal objects causing a spark when the van is being towed and if there is a gas leak, an explosion could result. Why is the gas regulation on tourers not the same as the regulation on boats? Or is it not an official gas regulation but one made up by the BSS scheme? Does anyone know?  Google is not my friend this morning ? 

The things which occupy your mind on a wet morning! 

 

haggis 

[mrsmelly]

Its my guess that its because the gas escapes from motorhomes and caravans. My motorhome has oodles of vents so gas will escape through the floor whereas a boat is a steel box and the bilge is the lowest point were gas could accumulate. Same with gas lockes on front of caravan its hugely vented and gas would like water go down and out of the locker.

[Tracy D'arth]

The gas storage locker is ventilated at the bottom and being above ground and not submerged in water any gas cannot accumulate in the locker.

I think it is still frowned upon to store other flammable items in the locker,

TD'

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Gas on a caravan can escape through the bottom to the ground, then dissipate in to the open air, where it does little harm and is at very low risk of forming an explosive mixture. Most boats don't have holes in the bottom, excepting in the gas locker, so escaped gas can't escape. Hence the rules on gas locker construction and venting.

[Alan de Enfield]

As there is generally no 'bottom' (or very little, with massive spaces for gas to leak out thru) in gas lockers there would be no build up of gas to ignite.

The floor of caravans has numerous vents to allow any leak within the caravan to 'leak out'.

 

It is interesting to note that he HSE, refer to the GSIUR and point out that gas work specifically on caravans and self-propelled motor caravans for private non-residential use is not required to conform to the GSIUR.

If a person operates a business or is employed to work on ANY gas installation they are obliged to follow safe working practices under Section 3 of the Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1974. Whilst the private caravan or self-propelled motor caravan is exempt from the GSIUR, the person employed to work on such an installation is required to work in a safe competent manner and with due regard of the approved codes of practice. Failure of an employed person to observe the ACoPS may be pursued by the HSE.

If an individual/ company were found guilty of a breach of Section 3 of the Health and Safety at Work etc Act they can be fined up to £20000 and/ or imprisoned of up to 12 months for offences heard in the Magistrates Court or an unlimited fine and/ or imprisonment of up to 2 years for offences heard in the Crown Court.

A private individual working on their own caravan or self-propelled motor caravan is exempt from the GSIUR, and because it is not a place of work they are not bound by the HASAW regulations, However the HSE spokesperson did point out that unsafe practices in such installations maybe pursued through other legislation and by other authorities.

The HSE strongly recommend that only competent persons undertake all work on gas installations in privately owned caravans, and self-propelled motor caravans, just as in all other types of installation.
 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[nicknorman]

It is because everything in a caravan is above ground level. Any gas leaking out will fall out the bottom of the caravan / gas locker before a significant (ie explosive) concentration of gas can be created. Yes of course the same principle applies to a boat gas locker but I think the vent area on a boat is much less. Plus of course the BSS is rather OTT in some (many) respects!). The relevant question is how many caravans have exploded due to this issue.

 

And of course narrowboat gas lockers are only empty of metallic objects on the day of the BSS, after that all the junk goes back in, demonstrating it’s a non-problem.

Edited July 3, 2020 by nicknorman

[nicknorman]

But anyway, reading the BSS I don’t think it disallows metallic objects that could feasibly create a spark. You are not allowed stuff in the gas locker that could block the vents. Fair enough. You are not allowed heavy/sharp objects that could damage the gas installation. Fair enough. You are not allowed items that induce a spark, but the gist of that seems to be electrical items, not a couple of bits of steel eg mooring pins that could under exceptional circumstances and combined with a gas leak severe enough to create an explosive mixture, create an explosion. 
 

Edit, oh actually loose mooring pins are not allowed, but because they are sharp, not because of a risk of sparks.

Edited July 3, 2020 by nicknorman

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

It is because everything in a caravan is above ground level. Any gas leaking out will fall out the bottom of the caravan / gas locker before a significant (ie explosive) concentration of gas can be created. Yes of course the same principle applies to a boat gas locker but I think the vent area on a boat is much less. Plus of course the BSS is rather OTT in some (many) respects!). The relevant question is how many caravans have exploded due to this issue.

 

And of course narrowboat gas lockers are only empty of metallic objects on the day of the BSS, after that all the junk goes back in, de on starting it’s a non-problem.

Do the regs actually prohibit storing other items in a boat gas locker? I thought it was only flammable item that were banned. There is a requirement to stop cylinders banging together I think but is there mention of other metallic items?

I have an anchor storage and a chain locker in the fore part of the gas locker and it has never been said that it should not be there on inspections.

The anchor is retained though.

I never remove the spare fenders, tatty bits of rope, plastic bucket and empty oil containers before a BSS check either, should I?

TD'

 

[mrsmelly]

7 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

It is because everything in a caravan is above ground level. Any gas leaking out will fall out the bottom of the caravan / gas locker before a significant (ie explosive) concentration of gas can be created. Yes of course the same principle applies to a boat gas locker but I think the vent area on a boat is much less. Plus of course the BSS is rather OTT in some (many) respects!). The relevant question is how many caravans have exploded due to this issue.

 

And of course narrowboat gas lockers are only empty of metallic objects on the day of the BSS, after that all the junk goes back in, de on starting it’s a non-problem.

There is absolutely nothing in  y gas locker other than two gas cylinders, I kid you not 

[nicknorman]

1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Do the regs actually prohibit storing other items in a boat gas locker? I thought it was only flammable item that were banned. There is a requirement to stop cylinders banging together I think but is there mention of other metallic items?

I have an anchor storage and a chain locker in the fore part of the gas locker and it has never been said that it should not be there on inspections.

The anchor is retained though.

I never remove the spare fenders, tatty bits of rope, plastic bucket and empty oil containers before a BSS check either, should I?

TD'

 

“Cylinder lockers must not contain loose sharp or heavy items such as anchors or mooring pins that could damage the cylinders or other LPG system component“

 

Your anchor isn’t loose, so that’s OK
 

[haggis]

Thank you folks for taking the trouble to reply and it seems reasonable that as the bottom of the caravan is above ground there is little risk of an explosion if gas escapes. I asked the question as when i collected my caravan after its service yesterday, the service guy had noted that I shouldn't have anything in the gas locker apart from the cylinders . I had caravan cleaner and an empty plastic bottle which I use for topping up the loo reservoir in there. Thinking of the boat scenario, I thought this was fine till I thought about it  a bit more this morning. My caravan (a Bailey) has the cylinders in a separate vented locker but most makes of caravan have the cylinders in the front with all the junk which one accumulates ? 

 

haggis

[Graham Davis]

2 hours ago, haggis said:

Thank you folks for taking the trouble to reply and it seems reasonable that as the bottom of the caravan is above ground there is little risk of an explosion if gas escapes. I asked the question as when i collected my caravan after its service yesterday, the service guy had noted that I shouldn't have anything in the gas locker apart from the cylinders . I had caravan cleaner and an empty plastic bottle which I use for topping up the loo reservoir in there. Thinking of the boat scenario, I thought this was fine till I thought about it  a bit more this morning. My caravan (a Bailey) has the cylinders in a separate vented locker but most makes of caravan have the cylinders in the front with all the junk which one accumulates ? 

 

haggis

Had our van serviced and nothing was ever mentioned about things stored in the front locker, and considering that our van comes with the spare wheel fitted there and a tie-down point for something else, I think he was being rather zealous.

[cuthound]

9 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

There is absolutely nothing in  y gas locker other than two gas cylinders, I kid you not 

 

Same as me except for rubber mats forthe gas cylinders to stand on and a gas spanner on a chain. ?

[haggis]

23 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Same as me except for rubber mats forthe gas cylinders to stand on and a gas spanner on a chain. ?

same as us

 

haggis

[Ray T]

Had our van have its yearly service last week. Regarding gas the only thing the engineer picked up on was that the pig tail was just over 5 years and he replaced it along with the LPG sticker which had faded.

[Graham Davis]

13 minutes ago, Ray T said:

Had our van have its yearly service last week. Regarding gas the only thing the engineer picked up on was that the pig tail was just over 5 years and he replaced it along with the LPG sticker which had faded.

Likewise.

[Cheshire cat]

Our neighbour took his van for a service last week. I wondered what they would do other than pump the tyres up. It's only two years old.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

Our neighbour took his van for a service last week. I wondered what they would do other than pump the tyres up. It's only two years old.

Its a motor vehicle with a gas installation on board, perhaps they check its road worthiness and integrity of the gas system and make sure its not suffered damp.

[AndrewIC]

When I was a kid, our old VW camper van had the two Camping Gaz bottles in the engine compartment!

[mrsmelly]

Campsite is fully booked here today and hundreds of bookings turned away, bonkers but good. I will be meeting and greeting everyone and giving advice on the new normal!! So back to roads being blocked by caravaners and when they get here if their motor mover packs in then some of the cannot manouvre their rig for toffee so as its the first weekend away realy of the year it could be fun!

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Campsite is fully booked here today and hundreds of bookings turned away, bonkers but good. I will be meeting and greeting everyone and giving advice on the new normal!! So back to roads being blocked by caravaners and when they get here if their motor mover packs in then some of the cannot manouvre their rig for toffee so as its the first weekend away realy of the year it could be fun!

Sissy's - we never had a 'bow thruster' even on our big 23 foot caravan (or 3-tonne triaxle horse trailer with 'living').

Some folks just are unable to drive.

 

I bet those movers are a lot of fun on soft saturated ground.

[mrsmelly]

19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Sissy's - we never had a 'bow thruster' even on our big 23 foot caravan (or 3-tonne triaxle horse trailer with 'living').

Some folks just are unable to drive.

 

I bet those movers are a lot of fun on soft saturated ground.

One lot last year came in a new top of the shop Range Rover and a new 80 million feet caravan. Took the caravan all along the field by remote motor mover until the jockey wheel collapsed and the tow hitch took a nose dive. Thats why I bough a motorhome instead so I dont look an arse trying to manouvre in tight spots 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

One lot last year came in a new top of the shop Range Rover and a new 80 million feet caravan. Took the caravan all along the field by remote motor mover until the jockey wheel collapsed and the tow hitch took a nose dive. Thats why I bough a motorhome instead so I dont look an arse trying to manouvre in tight spots 

The longer the caravan the easier it is to manoeuver, I used to tow a 30 foot long Glider trailer, &, because the axles are set further back any 'going out of line' happens so slowly it gives more time to correct it, we could reverse between the lines to get into a parking spot with vehicles each side. You just need plenty of room to 'spin around'.

 

The worse trailer for handling is a little 6 foot one that you cannot even see out of the rear window, and, as it is narrower than the car it cannot be seem in the wing mirrors, by the time you can see it, it has jack-knifed - the easiest is just to unhook and manoeuver by hand.

[Momac]

10 hours ago, Cheshire cat said:

Our neighbour took his van for a service last week. I wondered what they would do other than pump the tyres up. It's only two years old.

I presume its not an expensive service .  Probably not a bad investment in case of a failure / accident requiring insurers involvement.

 

 

[haggis]

10 hours ago, Cheshire cat said:

Our neighbour took his van for a service last week. I wondered what they would do other than pump the tyres up. It's only two years old.

If it was a new caravan to keep the warranty it must be serviced

every year by an approved service place for that make.  My van was new in March 19 but with Covid the service had to be postponed till now. The next service will be March 2021 and the only miles the caravan will have done between the two services will be from and to the dealer - a total of about 120 miles!. However, I know to my cost that it is worth getting the annual services done thus keeping the warranty. 

 

Haggis