Raw sewage in rivers

[Alan de Enfield]

  

14 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

But the specific rule does not cover every vessel.  It is not uncommon for a general rule to be superceded by a specific rule; for instance, assault and Police assault.

 

(I don't actually have a horse in this race, as no sea toilet!)

You are correct - the specific rule lists exemptions including 'pleasure vessels' that do not need to comply.

I agree that a general rule can be supreceded by a specific rule, but it would be nonsense for a general rule to override a specific rule

I would question that a vessel can be exempt in one section regarding the discharge of sewage, but then be subject to another rule regarding pollution such as :  

" puts or causes or suffers to fall into the docks or into the Thames any article or any solid matter".

 

 

A Bit like the BSS saying Solar, bilge pumps and battery charger wiring does not need to go thru an Isolator, but then in another section saying all wiring (with no exceptions) must be capable of being isolated.

 

I no longer have a dog in the fight now having both boats on the sea.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[tree monkey]

6 hours ago, MartynG said:

Nappies go in  the normal domestic refuse . Is that wrong too?

 

As its accepted practice and there is no real alternative option, no

But it's not ideal

[Midnight]

Just upstream of the boat club is a large water treatment works. After the 2015 Boxing Day floods I was surprised by a conversation I had with the EA customer support team. Apparently they can discharge raw sewage into the river Calder when it floods to 6ft above normal. That a lot of sh... you know what going past our boats. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Midnight

[Slim]

10 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It worked on triangulation of three shore stations. It was so 'secret' that you couldn't buy a Decca set, you could only rent them from Racal-Decca

Maybe in it's early days but I bought several in the very late 70s and into the 80's. I liked them, sight better than commercially available RDF. Also have vague memories of Decca navigation charts, never tried to understand them by the time I used Decca it was a simple Lat/Long readout with 'traffic light' accuracy indication.

Happy days.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Slim

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Slim said:

Maybe in it's early days but I bought several in the very late 70s and into the 80's. I liked them, sight better than commercially available RDF. 

They were better than nothing but trying to find the (known) location of a wreck was very haphazard and the accuracy changed by the hour. It would get us 'somewhere near' but we would then have to set up a search grid using the fish-finder / sonar.

 

For inshore fishing it was better to set up some transit features on shore.

 

GPS and plotters have really changed things.

[Jerra]

5 hours ago, tree monkey said:

As its accepted practice and there is no real alternative option, no

But it's not ideal

True there is no option, well there is they are called terry nappies, like were used on most of us when we were babies.  However accepting however environmentally good it would be if people reverted to them it isn't going to happen.

 

However IMO there is a heck of a difference between a soiled nappy and a bagful of feaces gathered over some weeks.

[Murflynn]

12 minutes ago, Jerra said:

True there is no option, well there is they are called terry nappies, like were used on most of us when we were babies.  However accepting however environmentally good it would be if people reverted to them it isn't going to happen.

 

However IMO there is a heck of a difference between a soiled nappy and a bagful of feaces gathered over some weeks.

but in a world where we should be trying to reduce consumption including manufacturing, using and throwing away single use items, perhaps it should happen.   Our modern society has become decadent, careless (as in not caring) and wasteful.  

 

I suppose the test is: if the whole world began using disposable nappies, would it be sustainable?

Edited July 2, 2020 by Murflynn

[Jerra]

Just now, Murflynn said:

but in a world where we should be trying to reduce consumption including manufacturing, using and throwing away single use items, perhaps it should happen.   Our modern society has become decadent, careless (as in not caring) and wasteful.  

It definitely should happen.  We used them on our kids (many years ago) and they weren't a problem.   However I just can't see modern mothers changing back unless forced.

 

My daughter with the degree in things environmental tells me a nappy in landfill will remain virtually unchanged for decades.

[magnetman]

2 hours ago, Jerra said:

 a nappy in landfill will remain virtually unchanged for decades.

The poor soiled baby will be crying :(

[tree monkey]

27 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The poor soiled baby will be crying :(

There were occasions when I might have considered it though

3 hours ago, Jerra said:

It definitely should happen.  We used them on our kids (many years ago) and they weren't a problem.   However I just can't see modern mothers changing back unless forced.

 

My daughter with the degree in things environmental tells me a nappy in landfill will remain virtually unchanged for decades.

I have read somewhere that the energy cost of washing the nappies outweighed the energy cost of producing disposables.

Which doesn't take into account the landfill cost of disposable of course

[Jerra]

6 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

There were occasions when I might have considered it though

I have read somewhere that the energy cost of washing the nappies outweighed the energy cost of producing disposables.

Which doesn't take into account the landfill cost of disposable of course

Or the loss of materials.  Once the nappy is buried the raw materials used to make it are lost more or less for ever.

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, tree monkey said:

There were occasions when I might have considered it though

 

Me too. We used a mix of disposable and washable for our two babies. 50/50 on the parent nappy-changing workload  of course when you wash things it often uses electrical energy which comes from somewhere. 

1 hour ago, Jerra said:

Or the loss of materials.  Once the nappy is buried the raw materials used to make it are lost more or less for ever.

That's an odd thing to say considering the economy of the entire industrialised world is based on extraction of buried materials. 

 

If the materials become valuable humans will extract them depending on the financial benefits. 

 

Open cast disposable nappy mines could well become quite popular in future. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by magnetman

[Murflynn]

1 hour ago, tree monkey said:

 

I have read somewhere that the energy cost of washing the nappies outweighed the energy cost of producing disposables.

 

I wonder how on earth do folk in developing countries manage, with no electricity available for their front-loading Indesit.   how much does it cost them?

 

about time the third world taught the first world a few lessons.

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, Murflynn said:

I wonder how on earth do folk in developing countries manage, with no electricity available for their front-loading Indesit.   how much does it cost them?

 

about time the third world taught the first world a few lessons.

I was told they just let the babies crap as and when they need to. No need for enclosures. Seems sensible really although slightly dodgy if they defecate all over the back seats of the Range rover Evogue (sic) 

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by magnetman

[Momac]

Landfill seems to have been mentioned quite  a bit.

Isn't most  domestic refuse incinerated or these days ? 

[Murflynn]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I was told they just let the babies crap as and when they need to. No need for enclosures. Seems sensible really although slightly dodgy if they defecate all over the back seats of the Range rover Evogue (sic) 

 

well that does happen in some places (in the open, not on the back seats of the Chelsea Tractor although my grandson came close to doing that a few years ago), but you can be assured that towelling nappies are used in much of the world and they are washed out in cold water with no detergents  ..........   just like they should be   ...........   hopefully then dried in the sun which kills any e-coli that is hanging around.

[tree monkey]

1 hour ago, MartynG said:

Landfill seems to have been mentioned quite  a bit.

Isn't most  domestic refuse incinerated or these days ? 

It's a good question which I don't know the answer but in my opinion it misses the question of the basic recyclability ( is that a word) of the products we use, neither landfill or incineration should be our primary means of dealing with our waste, they should be last ditch

[Jerra]

1 hour ago, MartynG said:

Landfill seems to have been mentioned quite  a bit.

Isn't most  domestic refuse incinerated or these days ? 

Not round here I live 3 miles from the local land fill.

[tree monkey]

8 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Not round here I live 3 miles from the local land fill.

Slightly flippantly but when Dad retired he got a part time job in a place where they brought full skips into and they separated out anything useful.

 

The man was like a pig in muck, the garage still has random bits of other people thrown away rubbish, he brought a whole motorbike back bit by bit on the back of his motorbike 

[Murflynn]

20 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Not round here I live 3 miles from the local land fill.

AFAIK our local black bag waste goes to landfill whilst just outside the city boundary there is an incineration plant, served by a purpose built railway spur, that burns the waste from several London boroughs.  

 

from Bristol Waste Co. website:  Bristol’s food waste is processed by an ‘anaerobic digester’, essentially a giant stomach, at GENeco in Avonmouth. The food waste is broken down to produce methane which is then burnt to produce electricity and gas for the area. General waste, on the other hand, is either sent to landfill, for further processing or is sent for recovery.

 

PS:   " ......   produce methane which is then burnt to produce electricity and gas  ........ "   err - something wrong with the author's use of English, innit?

[alias]

3 hours ago, tree monkey said:

I have read somewhere that the energy cost of washing the nappies outweighed the energy cost of producing disposables.

Which doesn't take into account the landfill cost of disposable of course

After diligent research the EA has concluded that the answer to which is more environmentally friendly can be summarised as "it depends how you use them".  More than you ever wanted to know on the subject here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/291130/scho0808boir-e-e.pdf

[Alway Swilby]

3 hours ago, Murflynn said:

well that does happen in some places (in the open, not on the back seats of the Chelsea Tractor although my grandson came close to doing that a few years ago), but you can be assured that towelling nappies are used in much of the world and they are washed out in cold water with no detergents  ..........   just like they should be   ...........   hopefully then dried in the sun which kills any e-coli that is hanging around.

Just out of interest what happens to the poo that gets washed out?

Edited July 2, 2020 by Alway Swilby

[Jerra]

2 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

Just out of interest what happens to the poo that gets washed out?

I don't know how things are done these days, but back when our two were in nappies there was a disposable liner which went into the toilet with the feaces then the nappy without any soiling apart from urine was batch washed.

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I don't know how things are done these days, but back when our two were in nappies there was a disposable liner which went into the toilet with the feaces then the nappy without any soiling apart from urine was batch washed.

I don't remember a 'liner' with our two, a 'full nappy' was draped over the side of the toilet and the toilet then flushed 'washing' the faeces off the nappy. Nappies then went into a bucket to soak and then when a batch was done (daily ?) they were washed and put thru the mangle.

[Jerra]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I don't remember a 'liner' with our two, a 'full nappy' was draped over the side of the toilet and the toilet then flushed 'washing' the faeces off the nappy. Nappies then went into a bucket to soak and then when a batch was done (daily ?) they were washed and put thru the mangle.

Just exactly what we did apart from the liner.