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Raw sewage in rivers


TheBiscuits

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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/01/water-firms-raw-sewage-england-rivers

 

 

Water companies in England discharged raw sewage into rivers on more than 200,000 occasions last year, according to data obtained by the Guardian.

 

The analysis reveals untreated human waste was released into streams and rivers for more than 1.5m hours in 2019.

 

The figures, obtained via environmental information requests, trace releases of sewage from storm drains in rivers across England by all nine water companies and provide a comprehensive picture of the scale of pollution from what critics say is the routine dumping of untreated sewage

 

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Just now, TheBiscuits said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/01/water-firms-raw-sewage-england-rivers

 

 

Water companies in England discharged raw sewage into rivers on more than 200,000 occasions last year, according to data obtained by the Guardian.

 

The analysis reveals untreated human waste was released into streams and rivers for more than 1.5m hours in 2019.

 

The figures, obtained via environmental information requests, trace releases of sewage from storm drains in rivers across England by all nine water companies and provide a comprehensive picture of the scale of pollution from what critics say is the routine dumping of untreated sewage

 

 

Which is probably one reason why boaters are allowed to use "sea-toilets' in many rivers - "a drop in the ocean".

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I'm sure that those who insist the separating/composting toilets using landfill are disgusting will be able to explain why using an elsan/pump out and it ending up in the river is nicer ...

 

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Which is probably one reason why boaters are allowed to use "sea-toilets' in many rivers - "a drop in the ocean".

 

I didn't think it was that many of the rivers you could use a sea toilet on.

 

Only four or five rivers, and only on certain parts of them if I remember correctly from last time this was discussed.

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4 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

The analysis reveals untreated human waste was released into streams and rivers for more than 1.5m hours in 2019.

 

I don't think there were 1500000 hours in 2019 24*365=8760

 

So this was presumably aggregated discharges from a number of sites. How many sites?

 

 

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5 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

I don't think there were 1500000 hours in 2019 24*365=8760

 

So this was presumably aggregated discharges from a number of sites. How many sites?

 

 

 

It's in the article linked in the post ...

 

data reveals 6,508 inland CSOs released untreated sewage into rivers 204,134 times in 2019. The spills discharged for 1.53m hours across the nine English water companies.

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12 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

I didn't think it was that many of the rivers you could use a sea toilet on.

 

Only four or five rivers, and only on certain parts of them if I remember correctly from last time this was discussed.

Much of the East Anglia system, the Trent, etc & even the Thames bye-laws for sewage discharge do not apply to 'pleasure / leisure vessels'.

 

PLA Byelaw 49 came into force on 1 January 2015. The Byelaw prevents the discharge of sewage into the Thames from specified vessels, consistent with the continuing improvement of the Thames environment, particularly with Thames Water's project to stop the discharge of untreated sewage into the river, and brings the Thames into line with a number of other UK harbours and inland waterways.

For the purposes of this byelaw, sewage refers to faeces and urine plus any water associated with them. In some circumstances, sewage from vessels is known as "black water".

The full text of the Port of London Authority Byelaw 49 is reproduced below:

49 (2012). DISCHARGE OF SEWAGE INTO THE THAMES

49.1 The owner of:

  1. a vessel licensed under section 124 of the Act or
  2. a houseboat

must, from 1 January 2015, ensure that no sewage is discharged into the Thames.

49.2 In this byelaw “houseboat” means any vessel (other than a ship registered under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 or any vessel usually used for navigation) which is used primarily as a place of habitation, or as a place for accommodating or receiving persons for the purposes of shelter, recreation, entertainment or refreshment, or as club premises or offices, while it is moored.

 

But it doesn't apply to pleasure boats, or to visiting boats, or to a number of other excluded categories listed in S124. The byelaw has to mention houseboats explicitly as, when they are moored, they don't need a licence. There may be some houseboats that would need a licence if they moved.

 

 

 

 

The latest 2017 version of the Water regulations :

 

The Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2016

Meaning of “water discharge activity”

 

3.—(1) A “water discharge activity” means any of the following—

 

(a)the discharge or entry to inland freshwaters, coastal waters or relevant territorial waters of any—

 

(i)poisonous, noxious or polluting matter,

 

(ii)waste matter, or

 

(iii)trade effluent or sewage effluent;

 

(b)the discharge from land through a pipe into the sea outside the seaward limits of relevant territorial waters of any trade effluent or sewage effluent;

 

(c)the removal from any part of the bottom, channel or bed of any inland freshwaters of a deposit accumulated by reason of any dam, weir or sluice holding back the waters, by causing it to be carried away in suspension in the waters, unless the activity is carried on in the exercise of a power conferred by or under any enactment relating to land drainage, flood prevention or navigation;

 

(d)the cutting or uprooting of a substantial amount of vegetation in any inland freshwaters or so near to any such waters that it falls into them, where it is not reasonable to take steps to remove the vegetation from these waters;

 

(e)an activity in respect of which a notice under paragraph 4 or 5 has been served and has taken effect.

 

(2) A discharge or an activity that might lead to a discharge is not a “water discharge activity”—

 

(a)if the discharge is made, or authorised to be made, by or under any prescribed statutory provision, or

 

(b)if the discharge is of trade effluent or sewage effluent from a vessel.

 

(3) In determining whether a discharge or an activity is a water discharge activity, no account must be taken of any radioactivity possessed by any substance or article or by any part of any premises.

 

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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47 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

I'm sure that those who insist the separating/composting toilets using landfill are disgusting will be able to explain why using an elsan/pump out and it ending up in the river is nicer ...

 

Suggesting that using a desiccating bog and dumping in a bin is wrong doesn't mean I consider river pollution a nicer thing, both are wrong and an inappropriate way to deal with human waste.

 

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53 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Much of the East Anglia system, the Trent, etc & even the Thames bye-laws for sewage discharge do not apply to 'pleasure / leisure vessels'.

 

PLA Byelaw 49 came into force on 1 January 2015. The Byelaw prevents the discharge of sewage into the Thames from specified vessels, consistent with the continuing improvement of the Thames environment, particularly with Thames Water's project to stop the discharge of untreated sewage into the river, and brings the Thames into line with a number of other UK harbours and inland waterways.

For the purposes of this byelaw, sewage refers to faeces and urine plus any water associated with them. In some circumstances, sewage from vessels is known as "black water".

The full text of the Port of London Authority Byelaw 49 is reproduced below:

49 (2012). DISCHARGE OF SEWAGE INTO THE THAMES

49.1 The owner of:

  1. a vessel licensed under section 124 of the Act or
  2. a houseboat

must, from 1 January 2015, ensure that no sewage is discharged into the Thames.

49.2 In this byelaw “houseboat” means any vessel (other than a ship registered under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 or any vessel usually used for navigation) which is used primarily as a place of habitation, or as a place for accommodating or receiving persons for the purposes of shelter, recreation, entertainment or refreshment, or as club premises or offices, while it is moored.

 

But it doesn't apply to pleasure boats, or to visiting boats, or to a number of other excluded categories listed in S124. The byelaw has to mention houseboats explicitly as, when they are moored, they don't need a licence. There may be some houseboats that would need a licence if they moved.

 

 

 

 

The latest 2017 version of the Water regulations :

 

The Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2016

Meaning of “water discharge activity”

 

3.—(1) A “water discharge activity” means any of the following—

 

(a)the discharge or entry to inland freshwaters, coastal waters or relevant territorial waters of any—

 

(i)poisonous, noxious or polluting matter,

 

(ii)waste matter, or

 

(iii)trade effluent or sewage effluent;

 

(b)the discharge from land through a pipe into the sea outside the seaward limits of relevant territorial waters of any trade effluent or sewage effluent;

 

(c)the removal from any part of the bottom, channel or bed of any inland freshwaters of a deposit accumulated by reason of any dam, weir or sluice holding back the waters, by causing it to be carried away in suspension in the waters, unless the activity is carried on in the exercise of a power conferred by or under any enactment relating to land drainage, flood prevention or navigation;

 

(d)the cutting or uprooting of a substantial amount of vegetation in any inland freshwaters or so near to any such waters that it falls into them, where it is not reasonable to take steps to remove the vegetation from these waters;

 

(e)an activity in respect of which a notice under paragraph 4 or 5 has been served and has taken effect.

 

(2) A discharge or an activity that might lead to a discharge is not a “water discharge activity”—

 

(a)if the discharge is made, or authorised to be made, by or under any prescribed statutory provision, or

 

(b)if the discharge is of trade effluent or sewage effluent from a vessel.

 

(3) In determining whether a discharge or an activity is a water discharge activity, no account must be taken of any radioactivity possessed by any substance or article or by any part of any premises.

 

 

 

If it doesn't apply to pleasure boats how come everytime I've bought an EA visitor licence the lockie has checked that I didn't have a sea toilet? I did ask the chap at Teddington once what would happen if I said I did have such a toilet and he said he would send me back downstream on the next tide.

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20 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

If it doesn't apply to pleasure boats how come everytime I've bought an EA visitor licence the lockie has checked that I didn't have a sea toilet? I did ask the chap at Teddington once what would happen if I said I did have such a toilet and he said he would send me back downstream on the next tide.

Maybe you could do some research to convince yourself, then copy the data and present it to the Lockie.

 

For starters :

 

Guidance to Boat Owners on Compliance with Byelaw 49 – Prohibiting Discharge of Sewage into the Thames

 https://www.pla.co.uk/assets/byelaw49draftwebguidancenoterev2.pdf
 
1) Introduction 
 
PLA Byelaw 49 comes into force on 1 January 2015.  The Byelaw prevents the discharge of sewage into the Thames from specified vessels, consistent with the continuing improvement of the Thames environment, particularly with Thames Water’s project to stop the discharge of untreated sewage into the river, and brings the Thames into line with a number of other UK harbours and inland waterways. 
 
For the purposes of this byelaw, sewage refers to faeces and urine plus any water associated with them. 
 
The full text of the Port of London Authority Byelaw 49 is reproduced below: 
 
49. DISCHARGE OF SEWAGE INTO THE THAMES 
 
49.1 The owner of:

a) a vessel licensed under section 124 of the Act or

b ) a houseboat must, from1 January 2015, ensure that no sewage is discharged into the Thames. 

 
49.2 In this byelaw “houseboat” means any vessel (other than a ship registered under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 or any vessel usually used for navigation) which is used primarily as a place of habitation, or as a place for accommodating or receiving persons for the purposes of shelter, recreation, entertainment or refreshment, or as club premises or offices, while it is moored. 

 

 


 So, following on from this read section 124 of the 1968 Act

https://www.pla.co.uk/assets/portoflondonact1968consolidationjan2014.pdf

 

 

(2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to- 
 
(a) a vessel which is navigated, worked or moored only occasionally in the vessel licensing area;  
 
(b) a pleasure vessel;  

 
(c) a hovercraft or seaplane; 
 
(d) any vessel (other than a ship registered under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 or any vessel usually used for navigation) which is used primarily as a place of habitation, or as a place for accommodating or receiving persons for the purposes of shelter, recreation, entertainment or refreshment, or as club premises or offices, while it is moored; 

 

This is my personal interpretation but if you follow the paper trail it appears to be correct, Pleasure boats and temporary visitors are not required to comply with Byelaw 49

 

Do your own research (DYOR)

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Maybe you could do some research to convince yourself, then copy the data and present it to the Lockie.

 

For starters :

 

Guidance to Boat Owners on Compliance with Byelaw 49 – Prohibiting Discharge of Sewage into the Thames

 https://www.pla.co.uk/assets/byelaw49draftwebguidancenoterev2.pdf
 
1) Introduction 
 
PLA Byelaw 49 comes into force on 1 January 2015.  The Byelaw prevents the discharge of sewage into the Thames from specified vessels, consistent with the continuing improvement of the Thames environment, particularly with Thames Water’s project to stop the discharge of untreated sewage into the river, and brings the Thames into line with a number of other UK harbours and inland waterways. 
 
For the purposes of this byelaw, sewage refers to faeces and urine plus any water associated with them. 
 
The full text of the Port of London Authority Byelaw 49 is reproduced below: 
 
49. DISCHARGE OF SEWAGE INTO THE THAMES 
 
49.1 The owner of:

a) a vessel licensed under section 124 of the Act or

b ) a houseboat must, from1 January 2015, ensure that no sewage is discharged into the Thames. 

 
49.2 In this byelaw “houseboat” means any vessel (other than a ship registered under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 or any vessel usually used for navigation) which is used primarily as a place of habitation, or as a place for accommodating or receiving persons for the purposes of shelter, recreation, entertainment or refreshment, or as club premises or offices, while it is moored. 

 

 


 So, following on from this read section 124 of the 1968 Act

https://www.pla.co.uk/assets/portoflondonact1968consolidationjan2014.pdf

 

 

(2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to- 
 
(a) a vessel which is navigated, worked or moored only occasionally in the vessel licensing area;  
 
(b) a pleasure vessel;  

 
(c) a hovercraft or seaplane; 
 
(d) any vessel (other than a ship registered under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 or any vessel usually used for navigation) which is used primarily as a place of habitation, or as a place for accommodating or receiving persons for the purposes of shelter, recreation, entertainment or refreshment, or as club premises or offices, while it is moored; 

 

This is my personal interpretation but if you follow the paper trail it appears to be correct, Pleasure boats and temporary visitors are not required to comply with Byelaw 49

 

Do your own research (DYOR)

I have no need to DMOR because I don't have a sea toilet.

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Probably worth pointing out that PLA is the tidal Thames. Above Teddington discharge of untreated sewage from boats is illegal. Slightly odd as it is an EA waterway when the Great Ouse and Nene are not subject to this restriction... maybe it's the queen doing it. 

 

Just in case anyone was confused. PLA jurisdiction ends below Teddington lock. 

 

 

ETA also worth pointing out that the Thames tideway tunnel project is modifying the old Basil Jet combined sewer outlets which also take in rain into a waste transfer tunnel system which will avoid massive amounts of untreated waste ending up in the River.

 

Which is a Good Thing. 

 

20ft diameter tunnel running down the Thames and also under Limehouse cut to transfer the unmentionables to Beckton shitfarm. Basically. 

 

Edited by magnetman
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41 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

The best cod came from around the sewer outlet

We used to regularly fish in Liverpool bay (small boat Winter fishing competitions) the 'hot-spots' we about 3 miles off New Brighton where the sewer-pipes from Liverpool ended.

The Cod fishing was superb but the fish were really 'scabby' and deformed.

Cod are the 'rats' of the ocean scavenging all the crap from the bottom.

 

17 foot 'trihedral dory' with twin 50Hp Evinrudes

 

Sea Bird 6001.jpg

Sea Bird 5001.jpg

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Maybe you could do some research to convince yourself, then copy the data and present it to the Lockie.

 

For starters :

 

Guidance to Boat Owners on Compliance with Byelaw 49 – Prohibiting Discharge of Sewage into the Thames

 https://www.pla.co.uk/assets/byelaw49draftwebguidancenoterev2.pdf
 
1) Introduction 
 
PLA Byelaw 49 comes into force on 1 January 2015.  The Byelaw prevents the discharge of sewage into the Thames from specified vessels, consistent with the continuing improvement of the Thames environment, particularly with Thames Water’s project to stop the discharge of untreated sewage into the river, and brings the Thames into line with a number of other UK harbours and inland waterways. 
 
For the purposes of this byelaw, sewage refers to faeces and urine plus any water associated with them. 
 
The full text of the Port of London Authority Byelaw 49 is reproduced below: 
 
49. DISCHARGE OF SEWAGE INTO THE THAMES 
 
49.1 The owner of:

a) a vessel licensed under section 124 of the Act or

b ) a houseboat must, from1 January 2015, ensure that no sewage is discharged into the Thames. 

 
49.2 In this byelaw “houseboat” means any vessel (other than a ship registered under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 or any vessel usually used for navigation) which is used primarily as a place of habitation, or as a place for accommodating or receiving persons for the purposes of shelter, recreation, entertainment or refreshment, or as club premises or offices, while it is moored. 

 

 


 So, following on from this read section 124 of the 1968 Act

https://www.pla.co.uk/assets/portoflondonact1968consolidationjan2014.pdf

 

 

(2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to- 
 
(a) a vessel which is navigated, worked or moored only occasionally in the vessel licensing area;  
 
(b) a pleasure vessel;  

 
(c) a hovercraft or seaplane; 
 
(d) any vessel (other than a ship registered under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 or any vessel usually used for navigation) which is used primarily as a place of habitation, or as a place for accommodating or receiving persons for the purposes of shelter, recreation, entertainment or refreshment, or as club premises or offices, while it is moored; 

 

This is my personal interpretation but if you follow the paper trail it appears to be correct, Pleasure boats and temporary visitors are not required to comply with Byelaw 49

 

Do your own research (DYOR)

Section 200 of the Port of London Act 1968?

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4 hours ago, tree monkey said:

Suggesting that using a desiccating bog and dumping in a bin is wrong doesn't mean I consider river pollution a nicer thing, both are wrong and an inappropriate way to deal with human waste.

 

Nappies go in  the normal domestic refuse . Is that wrong too?

 

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19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

We used to regularly fish in Liverpool bay (small boat Winter fishing competitions) the 'hot-spots' we about 3 miles off New Brighton where the sewer-pipes from Liverpool ended.

The Cod fishing was superb but the fish were really 'scabby' and deformed.

Cod are the 'rats' of the ocean scavenging all the crap from the bottom.

 

17 foot 'trihedral dory' with twin 50Hp Evinrudes

 

Sea Bird 6001.jpg

Sea Bird 5001.jpg

first pic looks like el chapo suggesting quality of consignment on the boat... 

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7 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

Section 200 of the Port of London Act 1968?

That does not mention sewage, or the exemptions referred to in earlier sections, so surely any section that specifically mentions sewage and the exceptions must take precedence over a 'general rule' otherwise the specific rules would not be necessary.

 

200.  Prohibition on pollution, etc, of Thames and docks 
 
(l) A person who 
 
(a) puts or causes or suffers to fall into the docks or into the Thames any article or any solid matter; or 
 
(b) puts any such thing in a place where it is likely to be carried into the Thames by floods or extraordinary tides; 
 
 and who cannot show that he has a lawful excuse for so doing, shall be guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding [level 4 on the standard scale] and to a daily fine not exceeding [£50]. 
 
(2) A person who puts and allows to remain for forty-eight hours in a place beside the Thames any article or thing of an offensive character which will, or which is likely to be blown or pass into, the Thames shall be guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding [level 4 on the standard scale] and to a daily fine not exceeding [£50]. 
 
(3) A person who contravenes subsection (I) of this section in relation to the docks and the master of a vessel from which such a contravention has occurred shall be liable to make good damage sustained by the Port Authority or by a vessel arising from such contravention. 
 
(4) When an offence against subsection (I) or subsection (2) of this section is committed from a vessel, the master or owner of the vessel may be proceeded against. 
 
(5) The Port Authority may remove anything which is in or beside the Thames in contravention, or as a result of a contravention, of this section. 

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But the specific rule does not cover every vessel.  It is not uncommon for a general rule to be superceded by a specific rule; for instance, assault and Police assault.

 

(I don't actually have a horse in this race, as no sea toilet!)

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15 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

first pic looks like el chapo suggesting quality of consignment on the boat... 

I had all the latest 'electronics' on board including 'Decca' for location.

 

Decca was the predecessor to GPS and as long as the wind wasn't blowing, there was no clouds in the sky, it wasn't raining or foggy it was accurate to about 1 mile.

 

It worked on triangulation of three shore stations. It was so 'secret' that you couldn't buy a Decca set, you could only rent them from Racal-Decca.

 

We usually used Chain 3B

 

Decca Navigator

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