French Canals Virgins

[Movin' on]

I thought the title might get certain members attention - (if it hasn't already been "modded" out!)

 

Having sold Zulu we are looking at the possibility of having a "base" of some sort abroad (but driveable - no flying) for use over the Apr/Oct period and at the moment are thinking to do this on a boat of some sort in France - winter months and heating/condensation/insulation won't be an issue as she would be laid up.

 

Two basic questions - 

 

We want to hire, as soon as the virus plus common sense allows, but do we self drive/hotel boat etc etc to best find out what its like - so we would appreciate your input based on actual experiences 

 

If you are already doing this or have done it - where do I go to get more advice and what thoughts do you have on type of boat steel grp penichette - what I would like to do is buy a boat over here and use it and get it sorted through next year and then ship it out there in 2022 for how ever many years knowing that if needed it was of a type that could readily be repatriated and sold.

 

I'm trying to keep the "asset value" UK based and clear of post Brexit red tape hence I don't want to buy property

 

Any and all contributions would be much appreciated - please don't turn this into a Brexit thread................... 

[Athy]

4 minutes ago, Halsey said:

I thought the title might get certain members attention - (if it hasn't already been "modded" out!)

 

 

 

..... 

Of course it hasn't been: some of us like France.

 

May I suggest that you talk to Blue Water holidays in Yorkshire about hiring. They are agents for Locaboat in France (and other countries) and are very approachable.

 

We have hired pénichette 935s from them on several occasions and have found them well laid-out and comfortable for 2 people.

 

Buying one here and taking it over there we have no experience of, but it sounds an unnecessary complication.

 

"Driveable" means different things to different people - do you mean close to the Channel ports? If sop, Brittany's canals may be what you seek.

 

 

[Naughty Cal]

We have only hired once in France on the canals and rivers of Brittany but what we saw we really did like.

 

We hired from Le Boat at Mesac/Guipry. 

 

I would recommend a self drive hire so that you can get a feel for the locks and moorings yourself.

 

The boat we hired probably wasn't the best for the waterways, it was Broom 29 from the Norfolk Broads and wasn't really the best to handle through the locks. I would certainly have a look at the Locaboat yards. Their boats looked really well compared to the Le Boat offerings.

 

You would probably find that the Penchittes are far better suited to the French waterways then anything you take over from the UK.

[Athy]

7 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Penchittes 

Oh come now, they aren't that bad.

[Onewheeler]

The DBA barges.org is a good place for advice on purchase. The torykip special policy might make VAT on movements complicated and I have no idea what the current position is. I've got a 1/6 share in a barge which works for me, but if buying, and especially for the summer months, I would go for something under 15 m and probably cruiser style rather than barge (although Piper do some lovely boats under 15 m). The reason is that moorings in marinas etc are becoming very much geared to boats under 15 m or 12 m - lots of finger pontoons. Fewer issues with width, pretty much all moorings will take something of 4 or 5 m.

 

As far as trying is concerned, you won't learn much on a hotel boat. Plenty of hire options, Le Boat is everywhere.

 

Don't forget that someone on board must have CEVNI, an ICC and VHF ticket if owning a boat in France. For hiring you just get in and go.

[Dav and Pen]

It very much depends on your budget which type of boat to have. We brought our barge in Belgium and spent 18 years doing much like you suggest spending April to End Sept on board and traveling the waterways. There are many locks on the smaller 38m canals and a steel boat suffers the least. There is no point having a narrow beam and the extra space makes life much easier especially considering summers often reach 35 plus. Many of the mooring places have power which is either free or a small cost so 230 volt equipment can be used. Another consideration is that on the big rivers there are long distances between locks so a comfy wheelhouse gets you out of the weather and allows sitting down. 
It’s a good idea to hire and as suggested Brittany in nearest but to get a better idea of France I would suggest Burgundy and the Nivernais canal or the Loire canal. Le boat and Locaboat have bases on these canals and although they both use grp boats It will give you an idea of what’s involved.

For your own boat you will need an ICC and a VHF licence but these are no necessary for hiring.

 

[Movin' on]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

Of course it hasn't been: some of us like France.

 

May I suggest that you talk to Blue Water holidays in Yorkshire about hiring. They are agents for Locaboat in France (and other countries) and are very approachable.

 

We have hired pénichette 935s from them on several occasions and have found them well laid-out and comfortable for 2 people.

 

Buying one here and taking it over there we have no experience of, but it sounds an unnecessary complication.

 

"Driveable" means different things to different people - do you mean close to the Channel ports? If sop, Brittany's canals may be what you seek.

 

 

I meant "virgins" but I guess you like them as well!!!

 

Thanks re BWH - will do......

 

Sorry - driveable location means we don't want to be based (abroad) anywhere we would have to fly to

 

I like the idea of buying a boat here and getting to know it whilst VERY local to contacts and our home and then taking over a boat that is ready for use - it may be overcomplicated but I'm also thinking of something to do next year that feeds the long term goal without actually leaving home until 2022 when both Brexit and covid might be better understood by us all (or not) 

50 minutes ago, Onewheeler said:

The DBA barges.org is a good place for advice on purchase. The torykip special policy might make VAT on movements complicated and I have no idea what the current position is. I've got a 1/6 share in a barge which works for me, but if buying, and especially for the summer months, I would go for something under 15 m and probably cruiser style rather than barge (although Piper do some lovely boats under 15 m). The reason is that moorings in marinas etc are becoming very much geared to boats under 15 m or 12 m - lots of finger pontoons. Fewer issues with width, pretty much all moorings will take something of 4 or 5 m.

 

As far as trying is concerned, you won't learn much on a hotel boat. Plenty of hire options, Le Boat is everywhere.

 

Don't forget that someone on board must have CEVNI, an ICC and VHF ticket if owning a boat in France. For hiring you just get in and go.

Thanks these are the tips I was looking for - its strange to be on the same side as the  "I'm thinking of buying a boat and living in London" brigade - its been a long time since I've admitted to not knowing what I'm talking about!

[Movin' on]

51 minutes ago, Dav and Pen said:

It very much depends on your budget which type of boat to have. We brought our barge in Belgium and spent 18 years doing much like you suggest spending April to End Sept on board and traveling the waterways. There are many locks on the smaller 38m canals and a steel boat suffers the least. There is no point having a narrow beam and the extra space makes life much easier especially considering summers often reach 35 plus. Many of the mooring places have power which is either free or a small cost so 230 volt equipment can be used. Another consideration is that on the big rivers there are long distances between locks so a comfy wheelhouse gets you out of the weather and allows sitting down. 
It’s a good idea to hire and as suggested Brittany in nearest but to get a better idea of France I would suggest Burgundy and the Nivernais canal or the Loire canal. Le boat and Locaboat have bases on these canals and although they both use grp boats It will give you an idea of what’s involved.

For your own boat you will need an ICC and a VHF licence but these are no necessary for hiring.

 

Thanks,

 

My initial thoughts were that steel would be very hot - I do like being outside my boats and find the temperatures that even the UK can get the steel shell up to very frustrating if I want to wash/polish something - even my recent  Hardy 25 is sooooooooooo much better to enjoy good hot weather in and move about.

 

Sorry - budget is pretty much what it takes but around £100k so long as I can be reasonably sure to get it back (excl running/maintenance costs) as it is my pension pot!!

 

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by Halsey

[Athy]

7 minutes ago, Halsey said:

I meant "virgins" but I guess you like them as well!!!

 

 

I know you did, and I can't remember.

 

My underlying point was that your topic heading was perfectly acceptable. It's a commonly-used expression, e.g. first-time visitors to Cropredy Festival are always known as "Cropredy Virgins".

[Onewheeler]

8 minutes ago, Halsey said:

Sorry - budget is pretty much what it takes but around £100k so long as I can be reasonably sure to get it back (excl running/maintenance costs) as it is my pension pot!!

 

You should be able to get something very nice for that. Look at the small ads on the DBA web site (you have to join, but if you're serious about boating on the mainland it's worth it even if only for the waterway guides which are updated by members). If you do decide to buy on the mainland, France is reputed to be much more expensive than the Netherlands.

[Movin' on]

21 minutes ago, Athy said:

I know you did, and I can't remember.

 

My underlying point was that your topic heading was perfectly acceptable. It's a commonly-used expression, e.g. first-time visitors to Cropredy Festival are always known as "Cropredy Virgins".

 

My "underlying" point was perhaps the reference to "virgins" would be deemed politically incorrect but I suppose I didn't assign any gender - after all us grumpy old men who apparently dominate this site do have to be careful ?

[Athy]

14 minutes ago, Halsey said:

 

My "underlying" point was perhaps the reference to "virgins" would be deemed politically incorrect 

Retailers of olive oil must be getting worried.

[Mike Adams]

We did it in France/Germany/Holland for ten years. Bought a GRP boat in the UK and crossed over. Very nice all told.

My advice is

Buy a GRP or Good Steel Boat (Dutch) less than 15m

Assume a season May to September

You will need ICC and able to speak French at least allow £2K for mooring and about £1k for Licence and Insurance.

Be prepared to be alone a lot at the start and end of season.

Resist a Dutch Barge. Cruisers are much better and easier to use in so many ways.

Sort out the customs issues re import and export first - I left before the possible problems. Look for a boat in Holland

Fogot to add

We kept boat in Armentiers 1 hour from calais £700 for a marina mooring.

[Dav and Pen]

I don’t see any problem with steel boats and the heat. As long as they have good insulation it works both ways. The decks and superstructure are usually painted in a light colour which helps and if there’s a rear deck then a permanent cover Is the answer. The vast majority of boats are steel either the Dutch cruisers or replica barges the only GRP boats in general use are in the hire fleets.

The Sagar barges are very popular and sell well so it may be worth looking in the uk for one of these if you want to use it here and then take it over and there are people who have taken wide beam nb’s over but I’m personally not a fan of them.

lots of barges in Holland and worth looking through some of the brokers lists keep under 20m and it avoids some eu regulations. There’s lots of room so no need to think to small.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Dav and Pen
Spelling

[Tam & Di]

59 minutes ago, Halsey said:

Sorry - driveable location means we don't want to be based (abroad) anywhere we would have to fly to

 

I like the idea of buying a boat here and getting to know it whilst VERY local to contacts and our home and then taking over a boat that is ready for use - it may be overcomplicated but I'm also thinking of something to do next year that feeds the long term goal without actually leaving home until 2022 when both Brexit and covid might be better understood by us all (or not)

Another puff for the DBA - not only info on the boat buying aspect and associated repair/maintenance issues, but also practical matters re long term visits, communications etc etc. "Drivable" is still unclear - you presumably have to factor in being in the Midlands from the address you give, but we do SE England to central France (e.g.Burgundy)in a comfortable day, or the Midi would be perhaps two slightly longer ones. Being based in Burgundy would anyway allow you to cruise on down to the Midi for the summer if that's your thing. One thing to bear in mind is that boating on continental canals and France in particular is very different to doing so in the UK, and generally freer of rules and restrictions. On the other hand services such a fuel and water are few and far between, and pump-outs almost non-existant. Tank sizes need to take account of that.

 

Unfortunately Brexit does raise its ugly head - as things stand at present it will only be possible to visit without having a visa for maximum 90 days in any 180, and the 180 days start from the moment you first land on continental soil. That means it is not even possible to roll two 90 day periods into one, and there is still no clear information about visas. There is also some possibility that a boat bought in England after 31st December and then taken to France could become liable to VAT if it is there more than 6 months; a boat bought now while the UK is still part of the EU should be OK as long as it has a comprehensive paper-trail detailing VAT paid etc.

 

Tam

[Movin' on]

28 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

Another puff for the DBA - not only info on the boat buying aspect and associated repair/maintenance issues, but also practical matters re long term visits, communications etc etc. "Drivable" is still unclear - you presumably have to factor in being in the Midlands from the address you give, but we do SE England to central France (e.g.Burgundy)in a comfortable day, or the Midi would be perhaps two slightly longer ones. Being based in Burgundy would anyway allow you to cruise on down to the Midi for the summer if that's your thing. One thing to bear in mind is that boating on continental canals and France in particular is very different to doing so in the UK, and generally freer of rules and restrictions. On the other hand services such a fuel and water are few and far between, and pump-outs almost non-existant. Tank sizes need to take account of that.

 

Unfortunately Brexit does raise its ugly head - as things stand at present it will only be possible to visit without having a visa for maximum 90 days in any 180, and the 180 days start from the moment you first land on continental soil. That means it is not even possible to roll two 90 day periods into one, and there is still no clear information about visas. There is also some possibility that a boat bought in England after 31st December and then taken to France could become liable to VAT if it is there more than 6 months; a boat bought now while the UK is still part of the EU should be OK as long as it has a comprehensive paper-trail detailing VAT paid etc.

 

Tam

 

Thanks for all that and esp the VAT bit - that's worth more thought ...........................

 

re "driveable" I should have said as an example we don't want a boat on the Med in Greece as we would have to fly there - we're not doing planes for the foreseeable future as we are both in different at risk groups.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Halsey