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Llangollen Which Counties?


mark99

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Got a question. The Welsh counties have confused me.

 

First what English county do you first enter into this canal junction from main Shroppie?

 

What Welsh County is the little bit where you go into Wales and out again to England in about 1/2 hours cruise?

 

What Welsh County is the canal in from Chirk Aquaduct to the basin.

 

Ta

 

 

Edited by mark99
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27 minutes ago, mark99 said:

Got a question. The Welsh counties have confused me.

 

First what English county do you first enter into this canal junction from main Shroppie?

Cheshire, actually Cheshire East.

27 minutes ago, mark99 said:

 

What Welsh County is the little bit where you go into Wales and out again to England in about 1/2 hours cruise?

Wrexham, Clwyd.

27 minutes ago, mark99 said:

 

What Welsh County is the canal in from Chirk Aquaduct to the basin.

Wrexham, Denbighshire

 

MP.

27 minutes ago, mark99 said:

 

Ta

 

 

 

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Can of  worms!

The first bit is Sropshire. Then the canal passes into what used to be 'Part of Flintshire (detached). but is now Wrexham County Borough. Then back into Shropshire (Ellesmere and Welsh Frankton are in Shropshire) to the Poachers Pocket just before Chirk aqueduct then back into Wrexham Maelor (used to be Denbighshire).

It was simpler when the canal was built!

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1 minute ago, mark99 said:

I'm glad it's not just me!  

 

 

What, that hasn't got a road atlas you mean?  £2.99 at a petrol station near you - or get a Phillips which comes at a much higher price but, if you pick the right one, will give you canal bridge numbers. Practically a "must have"! :captain:

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25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Does it matter ?

You 'boat about' in England but Wales is 'closed'

It absolutely does matter.... if one is trying to visit every possible  "shire" county by boat.  It's almost as important as ticking off train numbers!

 

The Llangollen gives you 4 shires.....

 

Edited by mark99
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30 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

What, that hasn't got a road atlas you mean?  £2.99 at a petrol station near you - or get a Phillips which comes at a much higher price but, if you pick the right one, will give you canal bridge numbers. Practically a "must have"! :captain:

The atlas does not give you the former Welsh counties as laid out by the experts here. These appear to have changed three times.

 

I'm looking to claim Mornington Crescent soon. 

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1 hour ago, buccaneer66 said:

You may be on a losing battle here, as you may get this years counties correct until some civil servants decides to move the boundaries again or rename one.

We accept all "Shire" counties old or new. I was born in the land of the Middle Saxons, Middlesex. That as a county has been abolished in name but it's not rubbed out any heritage. :)

 

I'm quarter Welsh too btw. Lol.

Edited by mark99
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41 minutes ago, mark99 said:

I was born in the land of the Middle Saxons, Middlesex. That as a county has been abolished in name...

I had no idea.  


I just looked it up and coincidentally found that they’ve also moved Richmond into Middlesex and created a new borough of Richmond on Thames. Even Wimbledon, my birthplace, has been moved out of Surrey...

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5 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I had no idea.  


I just looked it up and coincidentally found that they’ve also moved Richmond into Middlesex and created a new borough of Richmond on Thames. Even Wimbledon, my birthplace, has been moved out of Surrey...

And note that the email today from CRT about the lockdown in Leicester has moved that fine city to the "North West".

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18 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

And note that the email today from CRT about the lockdown in Leicester has moved that fine city to the "North West".

Iwas confused by that and rationalised it as being a newsletter for people in the north west 

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I'm not a reactionary conservative buy I'm unconvinced with entities such as "Cheshire East" being counties - they are areas of administrative convenience that have differing statuses - if you want counties rather than local authority areas Ceremonial Counties might help

 

If you're using ceremonial counties then on the Llangollen you go from Cheshire to Shropshire to Clwyd, back to Shropshire and back to Clwyd - in Wales ceremonial councties are referred to as preserved counties

 

Pre 1974 you would have gone into Cheshire, Shropshire, Flintshire (detached), Shropshire and then Denbighshire - In Landscape with Canals Rolt incorrectly states that Flintshire (detached) is a detached portion of Wales, it's not, it's just separate from the rest of Flintshire

 

   

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13 hours ago, MoominPapa said:

Cheshire, actually Cheshire East.

Wrexham, Clwyd.

Wrexham, Denbighshire

 

MP.

 

This is right but demonstates how messy it all is now.  Technically Cheshire no longer exists as an entity.  Now there's the unitary authority of Cheshire East, and the unitary authority of Cheshire West and Chester.  Shropshire is also a unitary authority, with Telford as a seperate unitary authority within it.  The Cheshire unitary authorities are adminstrated at district level (in that they have no county councils), whereas the Shropshire unitary authority is administrated at county level (no district councils), although it is technically not a county anymore. 

 

Wrexham is now classed as a county borough, so technically not a county.

 

Therefore the only county on the Llangollen is Denbighshire (which used to be part of Clwyd, but before that was part of Denbighshire).

 

Is that nice and clear? :icecream:

 

Edited by doratheexplorer
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We are still taking the four counties described.  :)

 

The funny canal bit that goes England/Wales/England in 30 mins cruising has zero notices on it wrt "you are in Wales". Boats heading that way proposing to pause before Chirk for Wales to re-open may not know they have technically broken the law.

 

 

Edited by mark99
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3 minutes ago, mark99 said:

We are still taking the four counties described.  :)

 

The funny canal bit that goes England/Wales/England in 30 mins cruising has zero notices on it wrt "you are in Wales". Boats heading that way proposing to pause before Chirk for Wales to re-open may not know they have technically broken the law.

 

 

See the post on the far left of this photo ...DSCF5771.JPG.5c3de65a55a5bec9b0b6fe5c1aa4aaff.JPG

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  • 5 months later...

Very useful topic given the tier rules but I'm still not exactly sure where the boundaries are and where the canal crosses the border.

 

According to the gov.uk and wales.gov websites, Shropshire and Cheshire are both Tier 2 for covid right now, and Wales is Level 4 (which I think is the same as England tier 4). In Tier 2 I believe we are allowed to cruise maintaining social distancing of course. While in tier 4 you may not.

 

I have found the guidance very complicated and sometimes contradictory, so we haven't paid too much attention because we have been isolating the entire year and only move for services anyway. I don't want to break any rules either though and the border with Wales makes things a bit more serious.

 

You aren't allowed to move from one tier to another either so does that mean that boats in the Llangollen canal loops (that leave Wales for England and go back again) are stranded? Really clear guidance like "you cannot pass bridge 14 even for services" would be useful.

 

I have heard that there is a physical barrier across the canal at Ellesmere. Can anyone confirm that? Will it be removed when Wales moves down to a lower tier?

 

P.S. merry Christmas!

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