Hybrid Clutch

[phillyfish]

I have a 62 foot narrow boat with a 50HP Beta Marina Greenline engine with a PRM150 Gearbox.  The engine has a 7.5 kVA Travel Power Pack – 230 Volt, Single Phase 50Hz fitted.  This is all house inside a Beta Marine sound reduction box.  The system has the normal Starter battery and a further 3 x 120AH Gel Leisure Batteries, with an intelligent battery charger and a 2k inverter.  The boat therefore is all electric.  I have sourced a low cost LEM200 (recon) and am looking for an inline clutch to create a parallel hybrid system.

Any advice on the inline clutch would be most helpful.  As I understand it the clutch will take drive from either the Beta (Direct) or the LEM (Belt Driven)

As for the 48V power pack I have that sorted. 

[Tony Brooks]

I am not 100% sure on PRM hydraulic boxes but it that had a mechanical PRM box you would just stick it in neutral and engage the electric motor. Some gears in the box would still turn and throw oil about to lubricate the bearings. The reason I am not so sure about PRM hydraulic boxes is because I don't know enough about the lubrication system. So I ask why do you need a clutch when the box has a neutral position. discuss it with PRM. I also had the impression that Lynch motors acted as generators when driven but may be wrong.

 

The Beta powered hybrid I saw many years ago use a horrible looking dog clutch mechanism that looks as if it was fabricated from coupling parts and metal rods. 

 

Remember on most narrowboats you are very restricted for length in the drive line so if you do need a clutch it would have to be fairly short.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Tony Brooks

[phillyfish]

Thank you for your response Tony, very much appreciate you giving your time.  Currently I am still putting the ideas together in regards to the complete system.  I think the idea of the clutch is to enable boost mode, as in Hybrid Marine solution.  It is also to enable the removal of the LEM from the drive chain.  There is a Power Pack already in the system so the LEM is not needed to perform that role.  It does however provide the ability to implement a backup solution which is not a bad thing to have.  I think if I can eliminate any loading of the drive chain then that is the way forward.  Yet if the cost of doing so is to great then there is as you say, the Neutral Position.  Cheaper too.    

The narrow boat is Dutch style with a wheel house and curser deck.  There is ample room for the LEM inclusion.  Unlike the Beta Marine Hybrid Solution I do not plan to mount the LEM to the engine but in its own frame.  The sound proof box the engine is in will not take the LEM.

I contacted L&S Engineers of Walsall (info@lsengineers.co.uk) who manufacture centrifugal clutches to see if they have any idea or solution.  I will update this post with my findings.

[Tony Brooks]

19 hours ago, phillyfish said:

I have a 62 foot narrow boat with a 50HP Beta Marina Greenline engine with a PRM150 Gearbox.  The engine has a 7.5 kVA Travel Power Pack – 230 Volt, Single Phase 50Hz fitted.  This is all house inside a Beta Marine sound reduction box.  The system has the normal Starter battery and a further 3 x 120AH Gel Leisure Batteries, with an intelligent battery charger and a 2k inverter.  The boat therefore is all electric.  I have sourced a low cost LEM200 (recon) and am looking for an inline clutch to create a parallel hybrid system.

Any advice on the inline clutch would be most helpful.  As I understand it the clutch will take drive from either the Beta (Direct) or the LEM (Belt Driven)

As for the 48V power pack I have that sorted. 

 

More thoughts:

 

You only have 360Ah of battery capacity that could be used to power the Lynch motor and sticking with a maximum of 50% depth of discharge it gives you 180Ah totally ignoring all your domestic loads unless you also intend to install a propulsion battery bank. You make no mention of a propulsion bank and as you say the boat is all electric I would suggest there is a likelihood that bank is insufficient for your domestic needs, let alone propulsion as well.

 

Have you done a power audit for your domestic electrical needs? Have you done your recharging calculations?

 

On the basis of what you have said I fear you may find you need to spend a considerable amount of extra money for a propulsion bank. I also fear that you may run into battery problems unless you in effect power much of your domestic load from running the engine via the Travelpower. I know its cocooned but CART regs. still say no running engines while moored between 8pm and 8am. Have you considered how you will cope when (not if) the Travelpower fails and has to go away for overhaul?

[BEngo]

OP says he has the 48V power pack sorted.   I assume it is some sort of Li  battery

  If so, I would be interested in how it will be  charged/managed.

 

That said 360 Ah total domestic capacity does not seem much for an all electric boat.   

N

[ditchcrawler]

59 minutes ago, BEngo said:

OP says he has the 48V power pack sorted.   I assume it is some sort of Li  battery

  If so, I would be interested in how it will be  charged/managed.

 

That said 360 Ah total domestic capacity does not seem much for an all electric boat.   

N

remeber he has a travelpower for big loads, just run the engine to cook dinner

[WotEver]

59 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

remeber he has a travelpower for big loads, just run the engine to cook dinner

As long as you don’t want to eat post 8pm or pre 8am. 

[phillyfish]

Hello all out there,  Thank you all for showing interest and putting your thoughts forward.  Yes the travelpower does indeed run the cooker when we use it.  The 360AH Leisure batteries have to date been more than adequate for all our needs and the batteries are currently in good health.  Its not good to eat beyond 8pm.   The 48V power pack is 4 x 12 200ah LiFePO4 with BMS for each bank.  To add to this the Leisure batteries will be increased by another 360AH.  These are to be charged by solar panels but will be able to be charged via the travelpower/standard Alternator if required, a BSM covering all the Leisure batteries will maintain a log and cell balancing.  The BSM on the leisure side will switch in Batteries to suit the current loading conditions and drop out those not needed and into the charging bank queue.  

 

The real issue I am facing is the Clutch.  I plan to keep the Beta inside the sound box and intend to mount the LEM in its own frame.  The LEM can (this is as I see it at the moment) have a centrifugal clutch on it.  This can be belt linked to another centrifugal clutch on the prop shaft.  This way the Beta can drive the prop and not be loaded by the LEM, and via-versa.  As I have said the LEM does not need to operate as a GEN but it would be nice to have the option.  I think this system will work but I do not know enough about the clutches and if there is another solution I should be aware of.  The mechanical centrifugal clutches are not that expensive which is good and I like to keep the mechanical elements simple. 

 

Phill

[Tony Brooks]

Thanks Phill, very pleased it is all working for you. We get a lot of posts similar to yours where it becomes clear the poster is new to boating and is trying to reinvent the wheel with potentially disastrous consequences battery life wise. Now you have made everything clear you are obviously not one of these.

 

Talk to PRM about allowing the guts of your gearbox to be driven for long periods by its output shaft with no load on it. If it will do it without problem you will only need a clutch on the motor. I think the PRM's oil pump must be driven by input shaft movement so it will default into neutral it the engine is stopped. No oil pressure in a PRM = no drive. This might save you a few quid if PRM are happy.