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Sailing the seas of Confusing Portable Generators


Batainte

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We have a Kipor 1000 and have been happy with its performance.  I soon found that the expense of petrol and the difficulty of getting it on the cut was worth the effort of converting it to gas.  I have just enough room in the gas locker for a third bottle.  It's much cheaper to run on gas and not inconvenient.  I run the generator on the bank with a long flexible gas hose from the bottle.

 

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Just now, David Mack said:

So you are running it on the boat? How do you ensure no carbon monoxide can get into the boat's interior?

I ran it on the stern with the exhaust facing over board and facing the wind flow which heads downstream from the boat. I also have carbon monoxide alarms both with lcd displays one near the stern and another just over halfway to the bow; so far neither has registered any carbon monoxide. 

The cheap generator was a waste of money. It lasted about 10 hours total running time over about a two weeks and now has no compression, so I've bought a Kipor suitcase generator to replace it. 

 

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On 29/06/2020 at 15:09, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Are you thinking that you can sit a petrol generator on the back of the boat and run it there ?

You should lift the generator off the boat and place it down eind of the boat and run it on the bank - you will be unlikely to lift a 3.5Kw genny about.

 

You cannot run your engine (genny or boat) after 8pm so you need to plan your battery charging during the day - you cannot just switch it on when convenient :

 

If you are looking at 3.5Kw, or even 8.5Ww then you need to be considering on-board silent water cooled generators which will cost about £10,000 installed.

 

Have you carried out any evaluation / review of your actual electrical usage ?

 

Assuming that you are looking for a 'portable petrol generator' I'd suggest that if the Honda 2.0I is too expensive, look at the 'next one down' which would be the Kipor 2.0i I am more than happy with our Kipor.

Good quality and a 'fraction' louder than the Honda.

 

 

From the BSS :

 

There are three critical risks linked to using generators that boaters must know about and manage if they are to keep themselves and other people safe from being poisoned, being electrocuted and avoiding fire.

Generator 3 Risk Warning 270X285For some boaters wanting off-grid electrical power means that they see portable generators as the only option, but if the risks that come with their use are not fully appreciated deaths, injuries and loss of property can and has happened

Carbon monoxide (CO) – generators especially petrol ones can produce extremely high levels of CO, a poison gas that can kill in minutes or leave survivors with long term critical health effects. However diesel engine exhausts have also been linked to illness and CO deaths

Fire & explosion – the mishandling of petrol and leaking fuel from generators have resulted in spectacular incidents and that have seriously injured people and wrecked boats.

Generator In Hatch WFRS 270X270

Also the use of poor cabling and connectors can also introduce just as real although possibly less obvious fire hazards.

Electrocution – any 230V ac system can be a killer and must be given

proper respect and precautions should be taken to guard against shocks.

These are the core points that should never be forgotten.

  • Never install a portable generator permanently or make unauthorised modifications that are not supported by the manufacturer, or proprietary component supplier.
  • Never run generators on the boat, or on the bank near to doors, vents, windows and hatches. If you can smell exhaust fumes in the boat, it could mean the cabin is also filling with deadly carbon monoxide.
  • Never refuel any generator anywhere aboard the boat; take it to the bank and ensure you are a safe distance from other boats and potential sources of ignition.

 

 

P6rob, is there anything confusing about Alan de Enfields post that I am quoting above?

On a more practical note, you can save the premiums on your life insurance and funeral plan, they ain't going to pay out based on what you are telling us about the way you are using the generator. Just saying...

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1 hour ago, Eeyore said:

P6rob, is there anything confusing about Alan de Enfields post that I am quoting above?

On a more practical note, you can save the premiums on your life insurance and funeral plan, they ain't going to pay out based on what you are telling us about the way you are using the generator. Just saying...

Thanks for the warning. It is duly noted.


Rob

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  • 1 month later...

I've had a few outdoor generators for my boat over the last few years, from a big remote-start diesel down to the small suitcase petrols. The only one that hasn't had to go back to the workshop has been the Honda. I nearly sold it on at one point but I'm so glad I kept it, it has been flawless (and definitely the quietest I've experienced).

 

My worst experience was with the Hyundai diesels (which I think are actually made by a 3rd party with Hyundai stickers on). It had so many problems and they weaseled out of the warranty by claiming I hadn't loaded the generator enough.

 

Appreciate this is all anecdotal but happy to expand on any of the points. If I was buying again today I wouldn't consider anything other than Honda.

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1 hour ago, BrumBargee said:

I've had a few outdoor generators for my boat over the last few years, from a big remote-start diesel down to the small suitcase petrols. The only one that hasn't had to go back to the workshop has been the Honda. I nearly sold it on at one point but I'm so glad I kept it, it has been flawless (and definitely the quietest I've experienced).

 

My worst experience was with the Hyundai diesels (which I think are actually made by a 3rd party with Hyundai stickers on). It had so many problems and they weaseled out of the warranty by claiming I hadn't loaded the generator enough.

 

Appreciate this is all anecdotal but happy to expand on any of the points. If I was buying again today I wouldn't consider anything other than Honda.

 

Seconded! We have used our Honda as live-aboards for fifteen years. We do run the generator on the back deck with the exhaust pointing away from the boat. This was probably quite wrong but we rarely use the back cabin (certainly never when the generator is running) and there is a bulkhead and big engine room between the back cabin and our well ventilated living area at the front.

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I can' t see running a generator on the rear  or front deck being any more of a CO problem than running your engine to charge batteries.Exhaust must of course be piped away,but look where the exhaust outlet is on most boats.

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8 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

I can' t see running a generator on the rear  or front deck being any more of a CO problem than running your engine to charge batteries.Exhaust must of course be piped away,but look where the exhaust outlet is on most boats.


Logic might lead you to conclude that, however small carburettor petrol engines in generators are tuned slightly rich. Their exhaust is about 10% carbon monoxide (100,000ppm) compared to less than 0.1% (1000ppm) for a diesel engine. So from a CO point of view you have to be much more careful with a petrol generator. 

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22 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

I can' t see running a generator on the rear  or front deck being any more of a CO problem than running your engine to charge batteries.Exhaust must of course be piped away,but look where the exhaust outlet is on most boats.

 

Petrol = Very bad

Diesel = Just a little bit bad.

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Find this post very interesting, if i understand this right a suitcase generator will do the same as a shoreline hook up regarding charging your battery bank ? or is the idea of a generator[say a Honda EU20I/22I] when away from shore power to provide power to use lights, tv, radio or other elec appliances ? or is the generator used as a power source for the battery charger to charge the battery bank ? there by providing the power from charged batteries. This may seem obvious to most on here but i would have thought there is a large power spike when charger is turned on especially if battery bank levels are low ? Would be very interested to know as was thinking about a genny and would like to know how a genny is used on board.

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5 minutes ago, br4k3s said:

Find this post very interesting, if i understand this right a suitcase generator will do the same as a shoreline hook up regarding charging your battery bank ? or is the idea of a generator[say a Honda EU20I/22I] when away from shore power to provide power to use lights, tv, radio or other elec appliances ? or is the generator used as a power source for the battery charger to charge the battery bank ? there by providing the power from charged batteries. This may seem obvious to most on here but i would have thought there is a large power spike when charger is turned on especially if battery bank levels are low ? Would be very interested to know as was thinking about a genny and would like to know how a genny is used on board.

 

 

You plug your battery charger into the generator and use the battery charger to charge your batteries.

You lights, pumps etc run off the batteries

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  • 2 months later...
  • 5 weeks later...
On 20/03/2021 at 11:48, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Petrol = Very bad

Diesel = Just a little bit bad.

Very true, and I'm looking at a small boxed Hyundai diesel that costs around 1200 quid, (Depends if you want a remote, as it's another 200 quid).

Reliable, BUT noisy as it's an unlined box. Weighs about 80kgs, so same as lifting one average person.

 

If it's upwind, try a bubler pipe over the side that is just below the water, or fit a small smoke stack like wot I use.

Edited by TNLI
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On 20/03/2021 at 17:52, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

You plug your battery charger into the generator and use the battery charger to charge your batteries.

You lights, pumps etc run off the batteries

 

Not a problem for lead acid batteries, just don't fall asleep with a generator running and fit a CO & smoke alarm or three, along with a fire extinguisher or two, (Auto bottle and handy). I always watch the voltage and switch off my solar panels just in case their regulators fail when the small Hyundai is freezing my next dinner, or running the electric microwave & oven unit. The toasters another big no go for my inverter, as 4 slices will trash a 120Ah house battery. 10 mins of 800W from my microwave will give the second battery a fairly good kicking too. That just leaves me with the Solas requred 2 start batteries, and they can't be connected to the galley services for good reasons.

 

No idea why you need to plug a charger into a gen set, unless it only does 240 or 110 volts, like wot some real small jobs do. I sure do not do shore power, due alloy hull and the fact I avoid marinas like the plague, unless I can raft off an outside berth boat with an AWOL skipper for fee, or until I get caught!

 

Edited by TNLI
spellin
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51 minutes ago, TNLI said:

Not a problem for lead acid batteries, just don't fall asleep with a generator running and fit a CO & smoke alarm or three, along with a fire extinguisher or two, (Auto bottle and handy).

 

You don't need to do all that as the generator should not be run on board.  The BSS "strongly suggests" that a generator should only be run on the towpath and downwind of the boat.

The only generators that should be run on-board are properly installed marine generators (costing (~£8k to $10k)

 

 

54 minutes ago, TNLI said:

No idea why you need to plug a charger into a gen set, unless it only does 240 or 110 volts, like wot some real small jobs do.

 

Most generators will 'do' 12 v or 230v but the 12v output is a very low number of amps. It is not economical to run a generator to charge the batteries using the 12v output. of (say) 10 amps when you could easily plug in a 50 - 75 - 100 amp battery charger.

 

 

Everything you seem to comment on seems to bear little relationship to the inland waterways. Where is your lifeboat moored / used ?

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1 hour ago, TNLI said:

 

No idea why you need to plug a charger into a gen set, unless it only does 240 or 110 volts, like wot some real small jobs do. 

 

 

Because the 12v DC output of most suitcase generators of the type being discussed here is tiny, only about 8 -12 amps and not enough to charge batteries properly.

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44 minutes ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

I've never understood this. Where does the excess power go to?

 

I think the 12V output is only fed from one winding on the Hondas and it's unregulated so, If, by some miracle, you managed to fully charge a battery the voltage would keep climbing until it destroyed the batteries. I also understand that using the 12V output for long periods risks damage to the machine because of an unbalanced load, but I can't see Honda designing that into a generator.

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3 hours ago, TNLI said:

 

10 mins of 800W from my microwave will give the second battery a fairly good kicking too.

 

800W at 12V is about 66A so, in 10 mins, will draw about 11Ah. Assuming your battery bank is a few hundred Ah, that is hardly a "fairly good kicking".

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15 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

800W at 12V is about 66A so, in 10 mins, will draw about 11Ah. Assuming your battery bank is a few hundred Ah, that is hardly a "fairly good kicking".

 I wonder if that is 800 watt plated consumption or 800 watts cooking power. If it's the latter then he is looking a close to 1600 watts consumption but still 22 Ah is not a good kicking for a  decent battery bank. However, we must remember the OP seems to have sea boat so perhaps out 300, 400 or 500 Ah plus battery banks we use just for the domestcs may not be so common.

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5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 I wonder if that is 800 watt plated consumption or 800 watts cooking power. If it's the latter then he is looking a close to 1600 watts consumption but still 22 Ah is not a good kicking for a  decent battery bank. However, we must remember the OP seems to have sea boat so perhaps out 300, 400 or 500 Ah plus battery banks we use just for the domestcs may not be so common.

 

 

Be it an 11Ah or 22Ah demand that is still far away from a 'good kicking' even for a single 110Ah battery.

 

Quite a lot of 'sea-going boats' do have large domestic battery banks, our boat has 6x 230Ah batteries, and one we looked at recently had a 12 x 110Ah bank.

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8 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Be it an 11Ah or 22Ah demand that is still far away from a 'good kicking' even for a single 110Ah battery.

 

Quite a lot of 'sea-going boats' do have large domestic battery banks, our boat has 6x 230Ah batteries, and one we looked at recently had a 12 x 110Ah bank.

I don't have an expensive 12v marine microwave and have to use fairly cheap non marine inverters, they are not very efficient. I will use my current clamp next time the inverter is in use, but nearly all cheap switched mode sine wave inverters are less than 50% efficient. I did have a far more expensive square wave one on my first yacht, and a microwave certified to use 110v square wave input voltage, (West marine I think), although it was a bit low at 600W, so it took a lot longer than my present one. I try to avoid using my inveter and just plan all cooking for one of the 30 min gen set sessions. 

Edited by TNLI
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8 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Be it an 11Ah or 22Ah demand that is still far away from a 'good kicking' even for a single 110Ah battery.

 

Quite a lot of 'sea-going boats' do have large domestic battery banks, our boat has 6x 230Ah batteries, and one we looked at recently had a 12 x 110Ah bank.

Wow, what was that boat used for ?? Oddly enough it's cheaper to use smaller sealed Lead acid batteries than the real monster US truck ones. When I replace my 120 Ah house battery, I'm going to down size to 100 Ah, as it's difficult to lift into the battery boxes, (All 4 are fitted, but I only have two batteries in place at present, one house and one start).

My main DC feed system has 2 battery selectors, due to Solas lifeboat engine start regs that lists 2 start batteries, not one. In an emergency flood situation it really does help if you can dump one overboard on your own. The 230Ah batteries might be unsealed golf cart ones. They are good deep cycle ones, although I don't like them if they are not sealed due to Chlorine gas risk if the bilge floods. 

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