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Narrowboat Saxa

Cruiser or Traditional Stern

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3 hours ago, cuthound said:

I once saw a guy with a cruiser stern step backwards onto the low stern rail, which upended him so that he entered the canal head first.

 

More or less what happened at Cropredy in 2009. The woman was moving towards the back of the boat when it hit the bottom gates, and she tipped over the stern rail into the water, and died from injuries caused by the rotating propeller.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1246177/Mother-died-family-falling-propellers-boat-holiday.html

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11 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

More or less what happened at Cropredy in 2009. The woman was moving towards the back of the boat when it hit the bottom gates, and she tipped over the stern rail into the water, and died from injuries caused by the rotating propeller.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1246177/Mother-died-family-falling-propellers-boat-holiday.html

 

I remember that one, and the poor unfortunate who was swept overboard when he hit the bank when reversing.

 

Given that from my observations 90% of people steer from alongside, rather than in front of the tiller bar, you would think CRT would publicise the correct way to steer, perhsps occasionally in Damien's weekly update.

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2 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

I remember that one, and the poor unfortunate who was swept overboard when he hit the bank when reversing.

 

Given that from my observations 90% of people steer from alongside, rather than in front of the tiller bar, you would think CRT would publicise the correct way to steer, perhsps occasionally in Damien's weekly update.

Again, all these unfortunate problems occur when the boat is moving backwards. In over 50 years of boating (and a lot of miles travelled) I have never seen any tendency for the tiller to swing hard across while the boat is moving forwards. 

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1 hour ago, Keeping Up said:

Again, all these unfortunate problems occur when the boat is moving backwards. In over 50 years of boating (and a lot of miles travelled) I have never seen any tendency for the tiller to swing hard across while the boat is moving forwards. 

 

I had the tiller move over once when travelling forwards. I think I ran over an oil drum because the bost rose at the front and the the front dipped as i went over the submerged article. As the rear of the boat went over it the tiller moved across but only a few degrees.

 

If you always steer from in front of the tiller, it becomes a habit and you cannot get caught out, even when reversing.

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58 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

If the cruiser deck is big enough, you can steer from the side without standing inside the arc of the tiller.

I agree ian, on both mine if operating controls you could not be in the arc

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3 hours ago, Keeping Up said:

Again, all these unfortunate problems occur when the boat is moving backwards. In over 50 years of boating (and a lot of miles travelled) I have never seen any tendency for the tiller to swing hard across while the boat is moving forwards. 

I’ve had it happen once, crossing over the supermarket trolley haven at the bottom of the Ryder’s Green flight. I was fortunately going slowly and in neutral, but the tiller still went hard over despite me trying to stop it.

  • Horror 1

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1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

If the cruiser deck is big enough, you can steer from the side without standing inside the arc of the tiller.

Does this not apply to trad sterns too? It does on mine.

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1 minute ago, Machpoint005 said:

I think the answer to that is "it depends". 

The trad I watched on Saturday definitely fell into the not a big enough stern area to be safe when reversing 

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Part of the safety issue when reversing any nb is to do it s-l-o-w-l-y. That does not eliminate the risks but it substantially reduces them. 

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Just now, Machpoint005 said:

Part of the safety issue when reversing any nb is to do it s-l-o-w-l-y. That does not eliminate the risks but it substantially reduces them. 

The stereo was getting in a pickle with twirling things and stuff and hitting banks recipe for a disaster really 

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1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

I think the answer to that is "it depends". 

The rear deck itself would never be big enough to be able to swing the tiller through it’s full arc on a trad but it must always be possible if standing on the step. Otherwise you wouldn’t be able to steer it at all. The problem only arises on trads when the steerer steps back from the step. In reality it shouldn’t be much different but of course if you aren’t on the step you have far fewer options for avoiding a swinging tiller on a trad than a cruiser stern.

Edited by Captain Pegg
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I think your autocorrect is pished, Peter!

 

 

21 minutes ago, peterboat said:

The stereo was getting in a pickle with twirling things and stuff and hitting banks recipe for a disaster really 

 

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I haven’t read all replies, just giving my opinion, but of course the choice is yours.

 

I am a double leg amputee and have an ‘assistance dog’ who wants to be with or near me. We have a cruiser stern, works well as I pilot the boat. A Trad stern wouldn’t work for us as my dog wouldn’t have space. 

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16 hours ago, Nemysys said:

I haven’t read all replies, just giving my opinion, but of course the choice is yours.

 

I am a double leg amputee and have an ‘assistance dog’ who wants to be with or near me. We have a cruiser stern, works well as I pilot the boat. A Trad stern wouldn’t work for us as my dog wouldn’t have space. 

We have a trad stern and a (slightly larger than average) golden retriever, she, my wife and I can all fit on the back. One of us (not the dog) just steps onto the gunnel if the other needs more room.

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41 minutes ago, frahkn said:

We have a trad stern and a (slightly larger than average) golden retriever, she, my wife and I can all fit on the back. One of us (not the dog) just steps onto the gunnel if the other needs more room.

If reversing and the rudder/tiller is forced over with no notice, who gets knocked off by it?

 

Two adults and a dog is crowded on our cruiser stern. Can't imagine doing it on a trad.

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16 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

If reversing and the rudder/tiller is forced over with no notice, who gets knocked off by it?

 

With one person stood on the gunwales and one person stood on the step steering, unless the dog is taller than the tiller bar they should all be okay.

  • Greenie 1

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18 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

If reversing and the rudder/tiller is forced over with no notice, who gets knocked off by it?

 

Two adults and a dog is crowded on our cruiser stern. Can't imagine doing it on a trad.

I use to have two Labradors laying on the stern deck, no problem. I was standing in the slide, the only problem was when they decided to go into the boat.

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23 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Two adults and a dog is crowded on our cruiser stern. Can't imagine doing it on a trad.

You're missing the fact that, given what we're trying to achieve here, there's a wealth of unused deck underneath the swept arc of the tiller - a pretty handy unoccupied space in which to accommodate all but the very largest of dogs.

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21 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

You're missing the fact that, given what we're trying to achieve here, there's a wealth of unused deck underneath the swept arc of the tiller - a pretty handy unoccupied space in which to accommodate all but the very largest of dogs.

 

Until you trip over the animal. It's bound to happen sooner or later.

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7 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Until you trip over the animal. It's bound to happen sooner or later.

This is, of course, a possibility! :D

 

You can minimise the risk by not being in the swept arc of the tiller yourself, which is also complying with the main thrust of this thread, and this is further improved by the dog staying put.  They don't always do that, I know, but I'm on my third Ship's Labrador and I'm still hopeful of keeping a clean sheet...  

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13 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Until you trip over the animal. It's bound to happen sooner or later.

However on a trad stern there is much less need to move one's feet more than a few inches, so less scope for tripping.

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5 hours ago, frahkn said:

We have a trad stern and a (slightly larger than average) golden retriever, she, my wife and I can all fit on the back. One of us (not the dog) just steps onto the gunnel if the other needs more room.

 

4 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

If reversing and the rudder/tiller is forced over with no notice, who gets knocked off by it?

 

Two adults and a dog is crowded on our cruiser stern. Can't imagine doing it on a trad.

 

i have a trad with an oversized hatch and a reactive GSD who can't be trusted to remain on the stern deck should he see something to react to, so we cruise with the rear doors closed and all three of us in the hatch area, and there is adequate room.

 

  • Greenie 1

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9 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

With one person stood on the gunwales and one person stood on the step steering, unless the dog is taller than the tiller bar they should all be okay.

In the example given, the person on the gunwales only moves there when necessary. So there are two people on the stern, and the dog, most of the time. I agree that no dogs would be harmed in this example but, with no notice, if someone is on the stern, they could be swept off by a vicious and immediate sweep of the tiller - or are they both on the step? Or is one always on the gunwales, and the other on the step?

 

For the OP - a cruiser stern is best for you and your dog. A semi trad may be handy if you want to keep the dog confined, but still outside with you.

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