Cruiser or Traditional Stern

[David Mack]

Only you can answer the question. If you are going to be single handing the boat in all weathers, then a trad will be more practical and comfortable. If all your boating is going to be with groups of people in the summer months, then the social space of a cruiser stern makes more sense.

Edited June 28, 2020 by David Mack

[Richard T]

To confuse matters even further we have a trad stern with a large hatch - approx 1m square - which gives us space for two or three people to stand at the rear. If the weather is bad you can pull the hatch closed and whilst its not as enclosed as a full trad it helps keep the weather off. There are even some boats about with a double hatch! A small one set into a large one. We like the large hatch because it allows our grandchildren to be atthe stern in a safe area. our engine is completely boxed in

[dmr]

The post from Tony Brooks just about says it all. Most boaters prefer a cruiser stern, though I sometimes suspect this is because they have previously hired boats (which are mostly cruiser sterns) and so are familiar with them. Modern trads create a sort of half height "shed" at the back that is difficult to get through and engine access can be poor, though a little "shed" is a useful thing. My own view is that a trad stern and a longer front well deck (for outdoor space) is the only way to go, and the associated back cabin and mid engine room are  also essential, but looking at boat for sale ads I realise that I am in a tiny minority.

 

................Dave

[Guest]

I was convinced I wanted a cruiser stern when I went viewing, as that's what we'd always been used to when we hired. The second boat I went to view ended up being the one I bought and has a trad stern, which suits me just fine. To be honest it wasn't really high on the list of priorities whichever type I got and  the rest of the boat won me over. 

[Scholar Gypsy]

Just to add a point on boxed in engines. Our was done in such a way that all of the box can be dismantled in about five minutes (two screws, lifting out five panels and two steel beams) whic gives good access to the engine, as you can see here

 

[PaulD]

My semi trad stern has no permanent seats giving plenty of room for the family, bike, dog, mooring tackle, toolboxes etc. Also good access to the engine. It gives better protection from the weather than a cruiser stern but not as good as a trad. 

Depends if you are going to cruise regardless of the weather or like us only when it's nice! 

[mrsmelly]

5 minutes ago, dmr said:

The post from Tony Brooks just about says it all. Most boaters prefer a cruiser stern, though I sometimes suspect this is because they have previously hired boats (which are mostly cruiser sterns) and so are familiar with them. Modern trads create a sort of half height "shed" at the back that is difficult to get through and engine access can be poor, though a little "shed" is a useful thing. My own view is that a trad stern and a longer front well deck (for outdoor space) is the only way to go, and the associated back cabin and mid engine room are  also essential, but looking at boat for sale ads I realise that I am in a tiny minority.

 

................Dave

I think we all differ and experience in the end finds what each of us want. Unless having owned all types its not possible to make an informed judgement realy is it. Priorities for this boat was no wasted space in a long front end, been there, done that didnt use it. When moored on  nice evenings we never sit onboard always off the boat. We went for as much full length cabin as was possible hence this boat gives us 18 inches more useable cabin length at only 68 feet than our 70 foot trad sterned udson did. Having said that the stern type when we look at another boat is always way down on wants/needs lists and we would have another trad if the rest of the boat suited. For instance we now only buy boats with Isuzu or beta engines with Travel power fitted and that is top of our shortlist but its all personal preference innitt.

1 minute ago, PaulD said:

My semi trad stern has no permanent seats giving plenty of room for the family, bike, dog, mooring tackle, toolboxes etc. Also good access to the engine. It gives better protection from the weather than a cruiser stern but not as good as a trad. 

Depends if you are going to cruise regardless of the weather or like us only when it's nice! 

A great thing about our semi trad is the brilliant non back breaking gas locker at the back end, non of that nonsense in the pointy end.

[Col_T]

When we were buying, my wife and I had long discussions, did much research, and hired a number of boats to try and get a feel for what we would prefer. We ended up deciding that a trad stern was last on our list. The boat that 'called out to us', and which we bought, was a trad stern - of course!

[PaulD]

10 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

Just to add a point on boxed in engines. Our was done in such a way that all of the box can be dismantled in about five minutes (two screws, lifting out five panels and two steel beams) whic gives good access to the engine, as you can see here

 

Somebody has nicked it. 

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

A great thing about our semi trad is the brilliant non back breaking gas locker at the back end, non of that nonsense in the pointy end.

Another point in favour of a cruiser with gas locker against the rear bulkhead. Good stout boards to stand on to lift the bottle and easy to sit it on the locker side prior to lifting it straight off the boat.

[Alan de Enfield]

Our Trad had the engine box 'side' so it lifted out which made access for the belts, oil and filters easy, but as the back end went under the steel 'rear deck' (yes there was a hatch that lifted up) it was very difficult trying to lean in and do any work around the gear-box and stern gland.

 

The 'yellowy' beam is the rear door cill, everything beyond that is under the back deck. The door cill was fixed (part of the structure) so I reckon it must have been welded in after the engine was fitted.

 

Edited June 28, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[David Schweizer]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Just be aware that the term 'Trad' can be confusing.

 

A 'Traditional' Trad has a small rear boatman's cabin with fold out bed / fold down table and a small coal fire stove, forward of that is the engine, (not boxed-in and loads of polishing) then forward to the rest of the boat.

 

A 'Modern' Trad has the engine under the rear deck and running forward into the cabin and is normally boxed-in  making access to the boat a bit of a 'wriggle'.

The builder of our boat took that into account, and installed a double length slide, so no banged head getting out, and room for a second person to stand on top of the engine box in front of the steerer.

 

Edited June 28, 2020 by David Schweizer

[Narrowboat Saxa]

2 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

The builder of our boat took that into account, and installed a double length slide, so no banged head getting out, and room for a second person to stand on top of the engine box in front of the steerer.

 

wow, thats actually very smart... How long is the engine room?

Edited June 28, 2020 by Narrowboat Saxa

[OldGoat]

From the above you can see that there are no absolutes - and worse than that - there are short and long varieties of front and rear decks, which make a decision more difficult.

There are no standard dimensions in NBs. I had to badger my builder for the lengths of front and rear decks and we came to an agreement. I suggested and eliptical stern - at which the buildre blenched - but in the end he and I were delighted with the shape and I understand that he used that style in later builds as more less a de facto standard.

I suggest for a single hander and a liveaboard that it's the cabin area is the more important consideration.

If the boat has a trad stern the engine space doubles as somwhere to dry clothes and to store 'things' that  defy being put in cupbloards.

I / we find it's nicer to drive  a trad ended boat, because the passenger can sit on the hatch slide with a great view of the scenery  - but having a well proportioned rear deck two can just about stand on it for short periods (I fitted folding carriage steps in the hatchway to make access to the roof easier. 

 

My arrangement is similar  to the 'Swiss' one above - sadly the builder said he couldn't make a very long hatch - but it's longer than 'usual'.

Edited June 28, 2020 by OldGoat

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Another point in favour of a cruiser with gas locker against the rear bulkhead. Good stout boards to stand on to lift the bottle and easy to sit it on the locker side prior to lifting it straight off the boat.

Definitely agree with this.

 

One thing I have never got about bow gas lockers is the size of the hatch. Yes you have to have some space around an open locker to stand on perhaps but why they are not more often shaped so there is a wider opening on the well deck edge of the locker I'll never know. Trying to get them through a postage stamp sized lid is a right PITA.

 

Personally I don't think I would ever have a boat with a bow gas locker again.

 

More should be like this one IMHO.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2020 by The Happy Nomad

[haggis]

It has been mentioned that it is not straight forward getting form the stern into the cabin on trad stern boat and while this is true for some, it is not true for all.  On some trads you step down from the stern, turn yourself through 90%, go down a step or two (bending so that your head clears the roof) turn the other way through 90% and step down again into the cabin.  I for one could not do that as my joints would just not enable me to make these moves without causing a lot of pain. You can also get trad sterns where you step straight down from the stern into the cabin with no  turning required at all.  

Needless to say we have the "straight down" option ? 

 

haggis

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, haggis said:

It has been mentioned that it is not straight forward getting form the stern into the cabin on trad stern boat and while this is true for some, it is not true for all.  On some trads you step down from the stern, turn yourself through 90%, go down a step or two (bending so that your head clears the roof) turn the other way through 90% and step down again into the cabin.  I for one could not do that as my joints would just not enable me to make these moves without causing a lot of pain. You can also get trad sterns where you step straight down from the stern into the cabin with no  turning required at all.  

Needless to say we have the "straight down" option ? 

 

haggis

I remember viewing some trads. where one had to practically crawl out and back one on one's hands and knees to get out the hatch. Obviously not all are like this but it definitely highlighted to me how much better semi trad or cruiser stern access is.

[dmr]

22 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I think we all differ and experience in the end finds what each of us want. Unless having owned all types its not possible to make an informed judgement realy is it. Priorities for this boat was no wasted space in a long front end, been there, done that didnt use it. When moored on  nice evenings we never sit onboard always off the boat. We went for as much full length cabin as was possible hence this boat gives us 18 inches more useable cabin length at only 68 feet than our 70 foot trad sterned udson did. Having said that the stern type when we look at another boat is always way down on wants/needs lists and we would have another trad if the rest of the boat suited. For instance we now only buy boats with Isuzu or beta engines with Travel power fitted and that is top of our shortlist but its all personal preference innitt.

A great thing about our semi trad is the brilliant non back breaking gas locker at the back end, non of that nonsense in the pointy end.

I find our longer than average front well deck almost essential. During the sunny weather lock down I have been out there almost every day doing various painting and woodwork jobs. It would have been great to get the workmate out onto the towpath but this wasn't really a option due to the amount of high speed cyclists. 

Setting up camping type chairs and tables on the towpath is a big part of canal life for some boaters and as the towpaths "improve" from grass to nasty black ash stuff and cycling increases this will likely have to change. I suspect a bit of outdoor boat space will become much more important.

 

I think you do a lot of boating on the Oxford? and this has largely got away with the cycle racetrack problem. I think I read somewhere that the Oxford towparth is just too narrow to be "improved" which I hope is true.  I am seriously looking at an offside mooring option for the winters so that at least the dog can safely have a wee ?  (and I can have a beer)

 

..............Dave

 

 

[robtheplod]

Access to the engine on our Semi-trad:

[robtheplod]

Another thing to look for which varies on the type of stern is the morse control - get one you can operate where you don't have to keep bending down - some boats have these quite a way out of reach and do your knees/back in!

Edited June 28, 2020 by robtheplod

[haggis]

1 minute ago, robtheplod said:

Another thing to look for which varies on the type of stern is the morse control - get one you can operate where you don't have to keep bending down - some boats have these quite a way out of reach and do your knees/back in!

With our trad stern, I often sit on the roof and work the throttle with my foot ? 

 

haggis

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, haggis said:

My preference is for the trad stern as a cruiser stern, although giving you a lot of space, means that you are exposed to the weather when steering. With a trad stern, you are more protected and can shut the doors behind you and slide the hatch so that only your top half is exposed.  Although a trad stern is not so safe for dogs as they can fall/be pushed off, ours tend to lie in the engine area below our feet.

 

haggis

 

My preference too.

 

I think a Trad is safer for a dog, especially if it is not used to boating because you can close the door behind you on a Trad trapping the dog inside whilst you steer.

 

A semi-trad with doors can do the same.

[Richard10002]

3 hours ago, Narrowboat Saxa said:

Hello there,

I'm looking to get a second hand narrowboat for myself, I will be a continuous cruiser (even through winter), my dog Beldie will be with, he is a Welsh Springer Spaniel and he likes to stay with me most of the time. I have 2 sterns I like, the trad and the cruiser, which one do you guys think would be the best option. Also, I will be a solo boater

Thnaks

Springer Spaniel and Cocker Spaniel here, (although The Springer left us last June  ) :

 

Only ever had a cruiser stern, and would choose it, or semi trad, every time. With the cruiser, the dogs can be on the stern with a bit of space to move around. I actually keep Poppy, (Cocker), on her lead, as I think she would jump in, or off, at any opportunity. Alfie, (Springer), knew the score, so was free to roam lead free.

 

With a semi trad, she/they, could be behind the doors in the enclosed bit, so outside and with me, but safe.

 

If single handed, and manoeuvering, (sp??), I send her into the cabin and shut the doors. If she's not keen to go, I throw a treat on the bed, and in she goes, like a shot. She can then sit on the bed and see a bit of what is going on.

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, Richard T said:

To confuse matters even further we have a trad stern with a large hatch - approx 1m square - which gives us space for two or three people to stand at the rear. If the weather is bad you can pull the hatch closed and whilst its not as enclosed as a full trad it helps keep the weather off. There are even some boats about with a double hatch! A small one set into a large one. We like the large hatch because it allows our grandchildren to be atthe stern in a safe area. our engine is completely boxed in

 

My current boat is a modern trad with a large hatch. I bought it having hired a couple of trads (proper trads, ex-working boats from UCC), many cruisers and a couple of semi-trads over 19 years, follwed by 23 years of shared ownership with semi-trads, and 6 years of sole ownership with my current boat, so have experience of all types of stern.

 

It has all of the advantages of a traditional trad (except stove next to steerers feet) and all of the advantages of a semi-trad without any of the disadvantages of a cruiser (cold and draughty in winter, dangerous low railing to upend you and tip you head first into the cut if you back into it). Engine access is also very good compared to most modern trads because you can stand up straight when in the engine hole.

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

Just to add a point on boxed in engines. Our was done in such a way that all of the box can be dismantled in about five minutes (two screws, lifting out five panels and two steel beams) whic gives good access to the engine, as you can see here

 

 

Looks like the access is so good some scrote has nicked your engine!??

 

My wide hatched modern trad is similar, three panels supported on removeable steel channel expose the entire area between the cabin sides.