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Beta or Canaline???


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Good engines but a tad big imo. I would stick a 42/3 ish engine in or a 38 will cope. My 70 foot Hudson was very heavy with the 15 mil bottom and keelson etc etc and the Beta 43 took me everywhere no problem including tidal rivers.

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11 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Beta every time.

My 2203 is now 27 years old and going strong.

In previous boats I have had 3 beta engines and one beta genset. All were flawless.

 

Not sure how old mine is but I have put a few hours on it

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9 minutes ago, Phil. said:

I would agree, beta over canaline. 43 would more than enough, diesels like to be worked hard, and it is a struggle to manage that even with 43, never mind 50.

Completely agree, my 70' Orion tug (23 ton) has a Beta 43 which I have never thought under powered on rivers or canals.

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I'm 60ft and weighs 22 tons (20 tons on the crane with no fuel and no water) I could have bought a 43 which is what Ted Spash recommended. However with a decent PRM gearbox and plenty of room / fixings for a 240v alternator thingy there was only £100 in it, thus the 50 won the day.

 

Folks get hung up on 'engine size to small / large' - but to my mind it's what you hang on at either end that clinches it....

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2 hours ago, Phil. said:

I would agree, beta over canaline. 43 would more than enough, diesels like to be worked hard, and it is a struggle to manage that even with 43, never mind 50.

The 36hp I had in my 65 footer was more than ample. Ya cant substitute inept handling with more horse power. This isuzu 42 on this 68 footer is well up to the job and spare power, never had it flat out. Over the last few years bigger and bigger engines and alternaters have been added. There are still plenty of older boats with little 2 pot listers about doing a good enough job such as the sr2 etc. 

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7 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

That's a massive step up from a BMC 1.5. I think you can expect to look forward to water cooling problems

Indeed

That is why mine doesn't use the skin tank but is indirect cooled from the river/canal water.

To cool a 50 you would need 2 skin tanks about 6ft long and 2ft high giving  25sqft area, not practical in a narrowboat.

 

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14 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Indeed

That is why mine doesn't use the skin tank but is indirect cooled from the river/canal water.

To cool a 50 you would need 2 skin tanks about 6ft long and 2ft high giving  25sqft area, not practical in a narrowboat.

 

 

I don't see why not? My Isuzu 55 is cooled with 2 skin tanks roughly 7x2ft + 6 x 2ft so about 26sqft in total. The engine bay on my widebeam is 9ft long which isn't longer than many narrow boats so the swims are probably only slightly longer. Once the engine is out there should be plenty of room to weld skin tanks in on a narrow boat.

Edited by blackrose
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10 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Indeed

That is why mine doesn't use the skin tank but is indirect cooled from the river/canal water.

To cool a 50 you would need 2 skin tanks about 6ft long and 2ft high giving  25sqft area, not practical in a narrowboat.

 

Ah, yes - I thought i'd keep schtum on the subject of water cooling. Indirect is lovely, sounds like a slipper launch in the lock, cooler engine bay, don't get burnt while working down the weed hatch.

 

We hired a boat from The Wing Commander and 'did' the Thames ring. Going up the Tideway the blurry thing boiled (well got pretty damn hot) and there wasn't that much flow about (summer time).  Made a mental note - 'if I ever get a boat I'll have indirect cooling - just like Teddesley did...

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Indeed

That is why mine doesn't use the skin tank but is indirect cooled from the river/canal water.

To cool a 50 you would need 2 skin tanks about 6ft long and 2ft high giving  25sqft area, not practical in a narrowboat.

 

Anyone remember this https://boatbuildblog.blogspot.com/2013/08/making-keel-cooling-for-friend.html

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1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

I don't see why not? My Isuzu 55 is cooled with 2 skin tanks roughly 7x2ft + 6 x 2ft so about 26sqft in total. The engine bay on my widebeam is 9ft long which isn't longer than many narrow boats so the swims are probably only slightly longer. Once the engine is out there should be plenty of room to weld skin tanks in on a narrow boat.

The bulkhead is on the steel upstand at the front of the engine, the engine is only about 1 metre from front to back so no chance of 6ft tanks without destroying the fit out. Even before the fit out the tank on one side would have intruded into an already narrow walkway.

Besides which its so much nicer to have a proper cooling system.

 

The picture is from when the boat was built and yes the Beta is that colour. The engine is no longer on the wood it is mounted on the steel.

engine_installation-p1ebekgirmltf2me77s182dq20.jpg

Edited by Loddon
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1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

I don't see why not? My Isuzu 55 is cooled with 2 skin tanks roughly 7x2ft + 6 x 2ft so about 26sqft in total. The engine bay on my widebeam is 9ft long which isn't longer than many narrow boats so the swims are probably only slightly longer. Once the engine is out there should be plenty of room to weld skin tanks in on a narrow boat.

Likewise. Mine has two skin tanks and ample cooling. No chance of poxy weeds getting in there either. There is a reason 99 percent of modern canal boats use keel cooling. Raw watter does sound nicer though innitt spitting and burbling along it has to be said. A bit like however fast a Tesla is it aint never going to make you smile like a TVR going past.

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I could not decide so I have both. My 55 Isuzu was designed for raw water cooling and I think my skin tank is not quite adequate for the full power so I have the skin tank in circuit all the time and If I need a lot of power say running up the river against the tide I simply bolt the raw water pump onto the crankshaft pulley with the two bolts(takes about aminute) and use raw water cooling as well through the heat exchanger in the manifold then when back on muddy ditches just unbolt it and move it out of the way. I was told this engine doesn't like to be overheated and unless you have big skin tank it is possible. Water temperature makes a big difference too  5C gives much better cooling than 25C.

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2 hours ago, Gilsteamin said:

Some good points here guys. Thanks. I’m still undecided though. ???

Go along to your local horticultural/agricultural machinery supplier and ask for their opinion on engines by Kubota (used by Beta) and Kioti/Daedong (used by Canaline). Then repeat the exercise at your local plant machinery supplier. The type of usage is different, but you should get a general idea of reliability and longevity; from which you can calculate a very crude figure for cost per hour of anticipated life expectancy. Or you could just buy a Beta 43 ?

 

 

  • Greenie 1
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18 minutes ago, Gilsteamin said:

B.E.T.A. 


I spell propper Englund like I used too could!!! ??? 
 

 

Some good points here guys. Thanks. I’m still undecided though. ???

 

Pretty please, why??

(seriously - if you draw up a list of what you expect from an engine, special features (if any, serviceability and so on that may help)

I chose mine because of -

  • Sales with no bullshit
  • Technical folk who knew what they were talking about
  • servicability
  • spare parts availability
  • market size
  • extras avaliable to meet my needs
  • knowledge of their market
  • able and willing to make suggestions

and probably a lot more besides that I've forgotten.

 

'One' can't comment without some knowledge of what the questioner really needs - even if that's 'bog standard'.

 

 

 

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