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On the upper Humber  (above the  Humber Bridge) the paper chart can be out of date by the time it is printed . Electronic charts only show the shore line and fixed marks . A new version of the paper chart  is issued every two months . Update of the buoy coordinates  are available online and really need to be taken into account as boayage can be moved almost  on a daily basis .

I wonder if the skipper relied on the chart without corrections and became confused - or perhaps he missed out a buoy which would have taken him over the kitty litter.

 

It does sound like it may have been a boat new to Hull marina. But by no means certain whether it was novice boater.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I was pleased to see they had the presence of mind to deploy the anchor.

I thought that was standard practice if you grounded on a falling tide so the next rising tide could not push you further up the bank.

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2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I thought that was standard practice if you grounded on a falling tide so the next rising tide could not push you further up the bank.

It is, as long as to don't put the anchor out 'up tide' of where you are, as the tide will still push you 'up the slope', and, if the tide heights are reducing you'll be stuck for the next couple of weeks.

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18 hours ago, MartynG said:

Maybe the channel has moved and the floats have not?

 

It's possible. There has been a lot of rain so the channel might have changed quickly.

 

 

I've sailed and and motored up the humber a few times.

The channels move faster than they can relocate the buoys, hence publishing the charts bi-weekly.

Keeping up-to-date charts costs a fortune.

 

That said, there is no excuse for running aground in a (relatively) shallow-drafted boat. You can pick up the really shallow patches by changes in wave behaviour. 

 

We took a 20m sailing barge up the humber, under sail, with no echo sounder, just me poling the depth and following the edge of a channel by feel. Quite exciting at 8knots over water (plus tide).

  • Greenie 1

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32 minutes ago, Alastair said:

I've sailed and and motored up the humber a few times.

The channels move faster than they can relocate the buoys, hence publishing the charts bi-weekly.

Keeping up-to-date charts costs a fortune.

 

 

That said, it is also  necessary  to monitor to VTS  Humber.  Every two hours they broadcast, among other information, details any navigational changes/warnings (see below).

 

http://www.humber.com/Estuary_Information/Marine_Information/Vessel_Traffic_Services/VTS_Description/

 

"A GENERAL BROADCAST GIVING WEATHER REPORTS, TIDAL INFORMATION AND NAVIGATIONAL WARNINGS IS MADE BY VESSEL TRAFFIC SERVICES, HUMBER ON CHANNEL 12, 14 AND 15 EVERY 2 HOURS COMMENCING 0103 HOURS, PRIOR NOTIFICATION BEING GIVEN ON CHANNEL 16."

 

Channel 15 for upriver of the Humber Bridge.

 

Howard

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Alastair said:

 

Keeping up-to-date charts costs a fortune.

 

The upper humber chart is free online as are the coordinates for the floats. 

I thought it was every two months the charts are published but I may be wrong. Corrections are regular.

 

Edited by MartynG

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59 minutes ago, MartynG said:

The upper humber chart is free online as are the coordinates for the floats. 

I thought it was every two months the charts are published but I may be wrong. Corrections are regular.

 

that's a nice modern touch. I thought they didn't believe in electricity. 

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1 hour ago, MartynG said:

The upper humber chart is free online as are the coordinates for the floats. 

I thought it was every two months the charts are published but I may be wrong. Corrections are regular.

 

http://www.humber.com/Estuary_Information/Marine_Information/Chart_Catalogue/Current_Humber_Charts/ in addition to the other links above. 

I loaded all the buoy locations int my chart plotter when crossing the Wash last year. It was rather tedious, not least as the conversion between decimal minutes, and minutes and seconds, was not always flawless.  I guess there is a data standard for loading this automatically (like KML for google maps) but I couldn't find it .... 

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In my limited experience of wide open bits of water its awfully easy to be somewhere where you didn't think you were - and that's in daylight. Entering harbours at night and looking for a little flashing buoy the size of a Christmas tree light against a lit up town is just awful. (Satellites and things weren't invented the last time I had the slightest responsibility for navigating a sailing boat)

  • Greenie 1

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The channel in the area where they have run aground has become really very narrow. 

 

It would only take a momentary loss of concentration at speed to run out of the channel at that point.

 

 

Capture.JPG

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Just now, Naughty Cal said:

The channel in the area where they have run aground has become really very narrow. 

 

It would only take a momentary loss of concentration at speed to run out of the channel at that point.

 

 

Capture.JPG

It isn't compulsory to be at speed! I agree the channel is narrow, which can be seen by looking at the chart, so slowing down may have been appropriate. 

 

Howard

 

 

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15 minutes ago, howardang said:

It isn't compulsory to be at speed! I agree the channel is narrow, which can be seen by looking at the chart, so slowing down may have been appropriate. 

 

Howard

 

 

I'm not sure anyone is suggesting it has to be done at speed but they were clearly trapping along with how far the legs have churned up the mud before they have come to a stop!

 

Hopefully they have got away without too much damage to the legs, could be a costly mistake if not.

 

It is far more entertaining at speed though if you manage to stick to the channel :D

 

DSCF4570.jpg

 

DSCF4574.jpg

 

Having had to do the run from Trent End to Hull Marina at displacement speeds due to a friends boat having mechanical issues and not being able to sustain any great speed, it is quite a boring run in comparison.

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And another one:

 

Humber Rescue
9h · CALLOUT - 22/07/20🚨

17:34 - Paged to assist a motor cruiser aground south of North Ferriby.

Motor cruiser towed free when sufficient water and escorted to Hull Marina.

Callout no: 85

 

 

110131884_3056475277793726_5366325399208763288_n.jpg

110506343_3056475284460392_2994414950306801598_n.jpg

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why did they need rescuing? Should have left them there to wait for the tide.

 

First time I went sailing in the Humber we ran aground. Boat owner had his arm around new girlfriend and sailed directly towards a buoy, forgetting there was a sandbank in the way. He was so besotted, he couldn't remember the state of the tide; it was rising, so we just had to wait 30min.

 

The Humber is an awkward bit of water.

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Difficult to see from the angle of the pictures but if they have run aground at any sort of speed then their rudders and shafts are probably stuck in the mud. Will probably have helped free it giving it an extra pull from the bow.

4 minutes ago, Alastair said:

why did they need rescuing? Should have left them there to wait for the tide.

 

First time I went sailing in the Humber we ran aground. Boat owner had his arm around new girlfriend and sailed directly towards a buoy, forgetting there was a sandbank in the way. He was so besotted, he couldn't remember the state of the tide; it was rising, so we just had to wait 30min.

 

The Humber is an awkward bit of water.

Post 60 shows just how narrow the channel is at that point at the moment.

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9 minutes ago, Alastair said:

why did they need rescuing? Should have left them there to wait for the tide.

I have no doubt  they did have to wait for the tide .

I assume the RNLI escorted  them into Hull  because they grounded at some speed with associated risk of damage to underwater gear .

It seems reasonable action while  the alternative you suggest of leaving them without assistance only to find they had an issue with propulsion of steering could have resulted in a further incident.

 

 

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2 hours ago, MartynG said:

I have no doubt  they did have to wait for the tide .

I assume the RNLI escorted  them into Hull  because they grounded at some speed with associated risk of damage to underwater gear .

It seems reasonable action while  the alternative you suggest of leaving them without assistance only to find they had an issue with propulsion of steering could have resulted in a further incident.

 

 

It is very rare to see the RNLI operating in that part of the river.   Humber Rescue - a local charity based rescue service - feature in the photos and is based almost under the Humber Bridge and was involved. If they needed an escort to Hull Marina it would have been done by them.

 

Here is their web site.

https://www.humber-rescue.co.uk/

 

Howard

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7 hours ago, howardang said:

It is very rare to see the RNLI operating in that part of the river.   Humber Rescue - a local charity based rescue service - feature in the photos and is based almost under the Humber Bridge and was involved. If they needed an escort to Hull Marina it would have been done by them.

 

Here is their web site.

https://www.humber-rescue.co.uk/

 

Howard

I thought Humber Rescue was part of the  RNLI -----  learn something new every day 

.

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9 hours ago, MartynG said:

I have no doubt  they did have to wait for the tide .

I assume Humber Rescue  escorted  them into Hull  because they grounded at some speed with associated risk of damage to underwater gear .

It seems reasonable action while  the alternative you suggest of leaving them without assistance only to find they had an issue with propulsion of steering could have resulted in a further incident.

 

 

I have corrected the above with regard to Humber Rescue 

11 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

 

 

 

110131884_3056475277793726_5366325399208763288_n.jpg

 

An excellent photograph 

I am guessing this is a boat having taken a short cut and not following the marked channel .

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, MartynG said:

I have corrected the above with regard to Humber Rescue 

An excellent photograph 

I am guessing this is a boat having taken a short cut and not following the marked channel .

 

 

 

Or has possibly just strayed out of the channel. It is incredibly narrow the channel at that point at the minute and there are only a few port markers there to mark what is left of Reeds Island and nothing marking the other side.

 

A momentary lack of concentration is all it is going to take to run aground on that stretch at the moment.

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45 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:
   On 21/06/2020 at 11:35,  Alan de Enfield said: 

Humber Rescue assisted three crew members stranded on the large cruiser

 

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/motor-boat-stuck-in-humber-4247162

They must have been going fast. The keel has been dragged back and the deck bent over as a result.

 

You appear to be attributing to me things that I never posted.

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You appear to be attributing to me things that I never posted.

No attribution intended. I had difficulty in pasting the pic and omitted to delete you in the process.

  • Happy 1

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