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Alan de Enfield

Water Hoses For Boats & Marinas - Best Practice.

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6 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

No - it is their responsibility to install non-return valves and has been for some time. The now widely installed devices (with lots of holes to release water if the hose is blocked) are an example of the better response to new regulations. Initially there was a fear that all water points would be disabled but then someone had a bright idea. Wish that was always the way forward.

The air gap devices won’t work with a long hose as the hose resistance is too great. Hopefully just check valves will be ok for fresh water taps. 

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I have always used a 'made up valved end'.

12" of 15mm pipe, into a 'push-fit', connected onto a 'washing machine' valve, screwed into a 'male' push-fit.

This connects into the female push-fit on the end of the hose.

 

I can turn the tap on, and allow the pipe to flush, turn off the valve and get on the boat, poke the pipe into the boat filler pipe, turn on the valve and not get squirted trying to put a running hose into the boat fitting.

 

 

Yes I know the flow is the wrong way around in the picture.

 

 

 

 

IMG_20170328_130956.jpg

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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22 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I have always used a 'made up valved end'.

12" of 15mm pipe, into a 'push-fit', connected onto a 'washing machine' valve, screwed into a 'male' push-fit.

This connects into the female push-fit on the end of the hose.

 

I can turn the tap on, and allow the pipe to flush, turn off the valve and get on the boat, poke the pipe into the boat filler pipe, turn on the valve and not get squirted trying to put a running hose into the boat fitting.

 

I may have always mis-understood, but isn't this sort of set-up exactly why water companies are concerned?  With the tap on but the valve shut contaminants in the hose can conceivably backfeed into the mains.  Whereas with an open-ended hose, so that with the tap on there is a continual flow, the chances of mains contamination are significantly reduced. (But agree the user is more likely to get wet!)

 

Something not mentioned in the guidelines is to try and ensure that the open end of the hose stays above the water level in the tank. Trickier if single-handed.

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8 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I may have always mis-understood, but isn't this sort of set-up exactly why water companies are concerned?

No, that is why the new guidance is that your hose must have an on/off valve at the end.

 

The concerns are that dropping your open-ended hose on the floor, in puddles, in the canal can allow germs to 'syphon' back into the water mains and contaminate the whole system.

 

This is why check-vales are required

 

Serious contamination of water supplies can occur
by backflow or cross connection with other sources
of water.
Backflow means the flow of water in a direction
opposite to the intended normal direction and can
occur either by:
backpressure – where the water in the plumbing
system is subjected to a greater pressure at a
‘downstream’ point than that upstream, allowing
it to flow backwards, or by
backsiphonage – where the downstream end of a
pipe or device is only at atmospheric pressure,
but the pressure upstream is less, effectively
sucking water back upstream.
Backflow is particularly relevant when considering
the use and storage of hosepipes and access
to them. Backflow could cause drinking water

supplies on boats, elsewhere in the marina or in the
surrounding neighbourhood to be contaminated with
toxic chemicals or disease-causing micro-organisms
(bacteria or viruses) from other water e.g. sewage,
puddles, river or sea water. There have been a number
of incidents in the United Kingdom where the public
water supply has been contaminated due to backflow
at marinas. A common cause is hosepipes being left
submerged in river or seawater.

 

I have the full requirements for Marinas, but as it is a Pdf it cannot be posted on this forum.

 

 

 

 

Screenshot (236).png

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11 minutes ago, Bewildered said:

Interesting, I've never heard of a "food grade hose". What are they for, soup?

They used to be yellow lol. My 100 foot garden hose has been on my last three boats and still going strong. There are some proper nonsense rules out there but in fairness the people who produce them no its all bollocks but its all about arse covering as others have said. 

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58 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

This is why check-vales are required

 

Serious contamination of water supplies can occur
by backflow or cross connection with other sources
of water...........

 

I have the full requirements for Marinas, but as it is a Pdf it cannot be posted on this forum.

 

Now it makes sense! They are writing more for boats in marinas where you have a line hooked up under pressure to your boat!

 

I have been total puzzled by how you could have any back-flow filling a tank because there is no back pressure. When you start talking about a pressured system from a hose it suddenly makes more sense.

Edited by Kudzucraft

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13 minutes ago, Kudzucraft said:

 

Now it makes sense! They are writing more for boats in marinas where you have a line hooked up under pressure to your boat!

 

 

No, it is illegal (under the water supply laws) to have a boat permanently 'connected' to a hose fed supply.

The concern is that the pressure in the water supply (mains) could be lower than atmospheric and you could get a back-flow if the end of the hose was dropped into the canal.

 

There are 'rafts' of regulations, eg :

 

 

Screenshot (237).png

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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19 minutes ago, Kudzucraft said:

 

Now it makes sense! They are writing more for boats in marinas where you have a line hooked up under pressure to your boat!

 

I have been total puzzled by how you could have any back-flow filling a tank because there is no back pressure. When you start talking about a pressured system from a hose it suddenly makes more sense.

In a house an outside hose tap has to have checkvalves.

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No, that is why the new guidance is that your hose must have an on/off valve at the end.

 

The concerns are that dropping your open-ended hose on the floor, in puddles, in the canal can allow germs to 'syphon' back into the water mains and contaminate the whole system.

 

This is why check-vales are required

 

Serious contamination of water supplies can occur
by backflow or cross connection with other sources
of water.
Backflow means the flow of water in a direction
opposite to the intended normal direction and can
occur either by:
backpressure – where the water in the plumbing
system is subjected to a greater pressure at a
‘downstream’ point than that upstream, allowing
it to flow backwards, or by
backsiphonage – where the downstream end of a
pipe or device is only at atmospheric pressure,
but the pressure upstream is less, effectively
sucking water back upstream.
Backflow is particularly relevant when considering
the use and storage of hosepipes and access
to them. Backflow could cause drinking water

supplies on boats, elsewhere in the marina or in the
surrounding neighbourhood to be contaminated with
toxic chemicals or disease-causing micro-organisms
(bacteria or viruses) from other water e.g. sewage,
puddles, river or sea water. There have been a number
of incidents in the United Kingdom where the public
water supply has been contaminated due to backflow
at marinas. A common cause is hosepipes being left
submerged in river or seawater.

 

You said why an on off valve is required at the end and then quote the regulations on check valves  ??

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1 hour ago, Bewildered said:

Interesting, I've never heard of a "food grade hose". What are they for, soup?

You've never tried eating one? They need to be boiled for several hours before they are soft enough to chew. If you cook them with enough garlic you can get them to taste of garlic, rather than hose pipe. A bit like the recipes the French use for snails and a similar texture.

  • Haha 2

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2 hours ago, Cheese said:

I may have always mis-understood, but isn't this sort of set-up exactly why water companies are concerned?  With the tap on but the valve shut contaminants in the hose can conceivably backfeed into the mains.  Whereas with an open-ended hose, so that with the tap on there is a continual flow, the chances of mains contamination are significantly reduced. (But agree the user is more likely to get wet!)

 

Something not mentioned in the guidelines is to try and ensure that the open end of the hose stays above the water level in the tank. Trickier if single-handed.

I thought it was mandatory for the tap to contain adequate back flow protection?

 

(now see that someone else has said the same!)

Edited by Mike Todd

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1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

You've never tried eating one? They need to be boiled for several hours before they are soft enough to chew. If you cook them with enough garlic you can get them to taste of garlic, rather than hose pipe. A bit like the recipes the French use for snails and a similar texture.

I would have thought a food grade hose was the type used to fill a gravy boat

  • Greenie 1

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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

I can't see any mention of end of hose valve

 

 

 

 

  • Recommendations are for boat owners to have the following:
    • An expandable hose for washing down (the ‘crinkly’ looking hoses)
    • A flat hose for filling up water tanks (these allow water to run out after use ensuring no build-up of stagnant water or bacteria)
    • All hoses must have ‘trigger ends’ or shut off valves.  As all our marina taps are drinking water at source, the shut off valves prevent non-drinking water flowing back up the hose if it drops into the marina.
  • Love 1

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