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Engine stops when in neutral- any pointers for a DIY fix or service options around Lancashire?


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Hi all,

as per the title- the engine doesnt start when in neutral (only if its in either gears- forward or reverse).

Same goes when switching from reverse to forward or vice versa- as it needs to pass through neutral, once that is being executed the engine just stops and needs to be restarted again.

Anyone has had such an experience in past? Would this be filter issues- been theorizing that if this would be the case, it would lack air intake therefore the engine shuts down completely. Alternatively, perhaps some gear- box issues?

Would anyone advice on attempting to resolve this via DIY route or better to search for a professional. If so, would anyone know where to begin the search around Lancashire area?

Thanks all

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What is the engine? What is the gearbox?

How is the engine normally stopped?  Does it go OK to full power in forward/reverse.  Does the engine slow down but try to keep going, fail, and stop, or does it stop abruptly?

Pictures of both, and the installation please.

This is very unlikely to be an air filter problem.

 

N

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With some morse controls, being in gear moves the throttle cable as well. 

 

Cutting out in neutral is a classic symptom of fuel starvation. Check your fuel lines for kinks or pinch points. Check your fuel filter isn't bunged up.

 

I forgot the other common problem; slipping throttle cable. 

Check this - I suggest checking the throttle control (on the engine) position with the engine off and gear in neutral. 

Some engine throttles have an adjustable stop - this can be set so that the engine is ticking over properly in neutral. If the stop has moved, then that could be your problem.

Edited by Alastair
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If I recall correctly the last Morse control I had had the provision for some form of electrical 'lockout'  I don't recall the details other than it was a genuine Morse control. Could yours have gone 'rouge' in some way.

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2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Idle setting screw dropped out? Sounds like the tickover is just too low.

Mine (Lister) wouldn't start without revs on, obviously in neutral. And stopped in neutral. I just speeded up the idle screw till it didn't, and now it keeps going happily. Can't reall help till we know what the engine is.

  • Greenie 2
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7 hours ago, Batainte said:

Hi all,

as per the title- the engine doesnt start when in neutral (only if its in either gears- forward or reverse).

Same goes when switching from reverse to forward or vice versa- as it needs to pass through neutral, once that is being executed the engine just stops and needs to be restarted again.

Anyone has had such an experience in past? Would this be filter issues- been theorizing that if this would be the case, it would lack air intake therefore the engine shuts down completely. Alternatively, perhaps some gear- box issues?

Would anyone advice on attempting to resolve this via DIY route or better to search for a professional. If so, would anyone know where to begin the search around Lancashire area?

Thanks all

Which bit of Lancashire?

 

L&L below or above Wigan or Lancaster?

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@TheBiscuits boat is parked in Burscough! 

19 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Mine (Lister) wouldn't start without revs on, obviously in neutral. And stopped in neutral. I just speeded up the idle screw till it didn't, and now it keeps going happily. Can't reall help till we know what the engine is.

 It is BMC 2,5l diesel 4 cylinders! Maybe you know location of idle screw as can’t find it! 

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Look at the throttle  linkage on the engine when you move the control. There is a stop to prevent it going to high and a stop when the control is in idle. This idle stop is what you adjust to hold the revs up enough to let it tick over.

Under no circumstances adjust the high revs stop.

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I think that would have a mechanically governed DPA injector pump on it but there seems to be a degree of interchangeability between the hydraulic and mechanical pumps.

 

Follow the pipes back from the injectors, they will be fixed to the injector pump. I think the pump will  have a cylindrical body with a rectangular box like structure on t. The stop lever and throttle lever are on top of the box thing and moving parallel with the box top.

 

Look at the levers as someone moves the throttle so you an identify the throttle lever. Set the single lever control to idle and see which screw/bolt shank the throttle lever is in very close proximity to or touching. That one is the idle stop. On no account touch the other one that is also associated with the throttle lever.

 

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Edited by Tony Brooks
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On 18/06/2020 at 20:09, Arthur Marshall said:

Mine (Lister) wouldn't start without revs on, obviously in neutral. And stopped in neutral. I just speeded up the idle screw till it didn't, and now it keeps going happily. Can't reall help till we know what the engine is.

This was when I found the twin levers on Lutine Bell very handy - I could keep the revs up whilst changing gear along the K&A whilst she limped to her new home...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks everyone for your advice and suggestions. Did some tinkering around and realised it would be better to arrange someone with more experience to take a look.

Initially suspected some air intake issues as perhaps the engine doesnt have enough "gasp" in order to function properly- but this being a speculation coming from a newbie...

A mechanic is taking a look later today, once he gives his final verdict, will update on here in case anyone else has a similar problem in future.

 

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8 hours ago, Batainte said:

Thanks everyone for your advice and suggestions. Did some tinkering around and realised it would be better to arrange someone with more experience to take a look.

Initially suspected some air intake issues as perhaps the engine doesnt have enough "gasp" in order to function properly- but this being a speculation coming from a newbie...

A mechanic is taking a look later today, once he gives his final verdict, will update on here in case anyone else has a similar problem in future.

 

So what did he say?

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 29/06/2020 at 21:39, WotEver said:

So what did he say?

So, after a long and exhausting 2 weeks - due weather conditions - mostly rain put all job in setback, (as our canopy been damaged and no cover when working on the engine bay), our mechanic managed to do full service on the engine, changing filters, bleeding fuel system - and all the other service related duties! 

But....
Engine won't start anymore. It seems that lifts pump is getting fuel to top filter and fuel gets to injector pump, but after injector pump fuel is not coming out, maybe only a little drip, so no fuel gets to engine. No pressure at all in injectors. We are in contact with some old legend mechanics who has striped apart every engine- apart of Apollo 13. :)  If it comes removing injector pump and sending to engineers to look at it - so be it.

 

Maybe you have any ideas what could be the issue or maybe there could be some McGyver fix!?

On 30/06/2020 at 15:23, TheBiscuits said:

 

I've just moored up at the wharf if your mechanic didn't turn up yesterday.  Let me know if you want me to take a look.

Maybe you have some idea or advice to share?
We got to get it up and running!


 

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Please confirm the injector pump is the one I supplied a photo of.

 

Question 1. Did he know how to bleed the pump? 2 bleed screws, one in the cylindrical part of the body and one in the side of the box like governor housing. If not he may have let air into the pump and then it won't deliver fuel to the injectors.

 

Question 2. Did he "prove" fuel was getting to the filter and injector pump by cranking the engine or using the priming lever. If the later it proves nothing if the operating arm inside the engine is bent or broken.

 

Assuming it is the pump illustrated then the governor is mechanically controlled so it is less likely to be a blob of water jambing the hydraulic governor closed that is usually used on the smaller BMCs.  I think the injector pump inlet is fitted with a plastic strainer mesh and I have known bug block this.It is under the large nut the inlet pipe union is fitted to that is t the end of the pump furthest away from the engine.  Observer EXTREME cleanliness while working n that area, swill everything with fresh, clean fuel as you reassemble and take GREAT care as you undo the large nut, there may be spring loaded parts under it.

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I am doubtful about this being a 2.4 litre BMC in a 37' narrow boat, it would be far too big.

If its a 1.5D or a1.8D has the "mechanic" bled it properly?  Did the said professional have the engine running before he left [ sexist, assuming gender ]?

TD' 

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7 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I am doubtful about this being a 2.4 litre BMC in a 37' narrow boat, it would be far too big.

If its a 1.5D or a1.8D has the "mechanic" bled it properly?  Did the said professional have the engine running before he left [ sexist, assuming gender ]?

TD' 

And if it is a 1.5, 1.8 or even a Perkins 4-10x that uses the hydraulic DPA it could well be water jambing the governor valve. perhaps the OP will post a photo of the engine so we can confirm.

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22 hours ago, Batainte said:

Maybe you have some idea or advice to share?
We got to get it up and running!

Sorry, we left Burscough on Thursday.  I waited 10 days for a response, but we are in Liverpool now.

 

We won't be stopping at Burscough on the way back past you.

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On 11/07/2020 at 20:49, TheBiscuits said:

We won't be stopping at Burscough on the way back past you.

 

Ok @Batainte, I was mistaken.  We weren't going to be stopping at Burscough but some friends were moored up with a space next to them so we have.

 

Let me know which boat is yours and I'll come and have a look if Wednesday or Thursday suits you - I'm busy tomorrow.

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