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Gas water heaters.. got me thinking


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Chatting with a chap today who is gutting and refitting his 1970’s harborough narrowboat ( ex hire ) and he said that when the refit is completed the paloma gas water heater would be in a cupboard in the bedroom ( currently the kitchen )

i was not  sure this would pass BSS despite it passing as a kitchen

  Thoughts ...?? 

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Well thank you for your definitive and informed answer biscuit tin 

if I knew you better and felt you wouldn’t take offence and have a hissy fit i might have called you a prat 

I can of course read a set of Bss guidelines , but wanted to Chuck the question out here for real world opinions 

 

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

Why would the BSS be concerned that the water heater is in a cupboard?

I thought it was more of a possible issue as it was possibly restricted for airflow and in a bedroom 

just my observation 

 

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4 minutes ago, Chris-B said:

Well thank you for your definitive and informed answer biscuit tin 

if I knew you better and felt you wouldn’t take offence and have a hissy fit i might have called you a prat 

I can of course read a set of Bss guidelines , but wanted to Chuck the question out here for real world opinions 

 

I thought it was more of a possible issue as it was possibly restricted for airflow and in a bedroom 

just my observation 

 

My guess, without checking the guidelines (just to annoy all the know all clever clogs) would be.

 

Its not contrary to have a gas appliance installed in a sleeping area, as long as it's 'room sealed' a bit like a house I believe.

 

So if the heater is room sealed ie intakes air and expels exhaust gases through a flu sealed from the room or in this case cabin then it will pass a BSS inspection.

 

(No doubt somebody will correct me if I am wrong which of course would just beg the question why they didnt simply answer in the first place).

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HN this is the older non room sealed version 

it’s been in the boat for ages just that the room configuration is changing from kitchen to bedroom 

and he wants to put it in an open bottom cupboard 

 

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2 minutes ago, Chris-B said:

HN this is the older non room sealed version 

it’s been in the boat for ages just that the room configuration is changing from kitchen to bedroom 

and he wants to put it in an open bottom cupboard 

 

If its none room sealed I wouldnt be happy to sleep in the cabin where it's fitted TBH, even if it would pass a BSS exam, I understand your concern.

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I don't think this is a BSS issue but if the boat is a live aboard then the work , as I understand it should be carried out by someone who is deemed competent and comply with the GSR requirements that could well not allow a gas heater in a bedroom. Thinking on a bit further I think my nice when she had her house modified actually had to have a cupboard because the gas boiler would have been in a bedroom. So maybe the cupboard is the important factor.

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3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I don't think this is a BSS issue but if the boat is a live aboard then the work , as I understand it should be carried out by someone who is deemed competent and comply with the GSR requirements that could well not allow a gas heater in a bedroom. Thinking on a bit further I think my nice when she had her house modified actually had to have a cupboard because the gas boiler would have been in a bedroom. So maybe the cupboard is the important factor.

Just found this, maybe 14 Kw is important

 

 

Under the Gas Safety Regulations 1998 a room being used to sleep in can’t have a gas boiler over 14kw unless it is room sealed. Make sure you check the output of the boiler before installing.

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Screenshot_20200616-231916_Drive.jpg

 

 

Would just seem to suggest it just needs to be checked its operating efficiently. No mention of where it can and cannot be located. Which frankly I find surprising.

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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45 minutes ago, Chris-B said:

Well thank you for your definitive and informed answer biscuit tin 

if I knew you better and felt you wouldn’t take offence and have a hissy fit i might have called you a prat 

I can of course read a set of Bss guidelines , but wanted to Chuck the question out here for real world opinions 

 

I thought it was more of a possible issue as it was possibly restricted for airflow and in a bedroom 

just my observation 

 

 

 

All this aggression - the answer is simple and written in law; Jut read the relevant paperwork.

 

If the boat is a liveaboard then the GSIUR regulations apply (The BSS doesn't comment on the subject)

The GSIUR states 

 

Room-sealed appliances 30.—

(1)  No person shall install a gas appliance in a room used or intended to be used as a bathroom or a shower room unless it is a room-sealed appliance.

 

(2)  No person shall install a gas fire, other gas space heater or a gas water heater of more than 14 kilowatt gross heat input in a room used or intended to be used as sleeping accommodation unless the appliance is a room-sealed appliance.

 

(3)  No person shall install a gas fire, other gas space heater or a gas water heater of 14 kilowatt gross heat input or less in a room used or intended to be used as sleeping accommodation and no person shall install an instantaneous water heater unless (in each case)— 

(a) it is a room-sealed appliance; or

(b) it incorporates a safety control designed to shut down the appliance before there is a build up of a dangerous quantity of the products of combustion in the room concerned.

 

(4)  The references in paragraphs (1) to (3) to a room used or intended to be used for the purpose therein referred to includes a reference to—

(a) a cupboard or compartment within such a room; or

(b) a cupboard, compartment or space adjacent to such a room if there is an air vent from the cupboard, compartment or space into such a room.
 

 

So the answer is, NO you cannot install a non-room sealed gas water heater in a cupboard in a bedroom of a liveaboard boat

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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33 minutes ago, Chris-B said:

HN this is the older non room sealed version 

it’s been in the boat for ages just that the room configuration is changing from kitchen to bedroom 

and he wants to put it in an open bottom cupboard 

 

 

I'd be surprised if you're allowed to box in a non-room sealed gas water heater. Open bottom...? I suppose it would have plenty of air but isn't it a fire risk? Also what's the hole at the front of most non room sealed instant water heaters for and are you allowed to cover it? 

Edited by blackrose
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9 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Would just seem to suggest it just needs to be checked its operating efficiently. No mention of where it can and cannot be located.

Plus, all those checks are Advisory only.

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

So the answer is, NO you cannot install a non-room sealed gas water heater in a cupboard in a bedroom of a liveaboard boat

... but the BSS won't care.

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2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Plus, all those checks are Advisory only.

But seemingly irrelevant now, given Alan's post.

 

Regardless, it doesnt seem like a 'good' idea anyway.

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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1 minute ago, The Happy Nomad said:

But seemingly irrelevant now, given Alan's post.

Not irrelevant to the OP though.  He asked if it would have BSS implications.  No it wouldn't.  If it's a liveaboard then it won't comply with GSIUR regs, but that's a different question.

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Just now, WotEver said:

Not irrelevant to the OP though.  He asked if it would have BSS implications.  No it wouldn't.  If it's a liveaboard then it won't comply with GSIUR regs, but that's a different question.

You spotted a flaw in somebodies post. Have a coconut.

 

So if you knew that why not say it in your first post in the thread? 

 

(I suspect its because you didnt know it).

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Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

Maybe not, but your insurers may be.

Indeed.  It's a daft idea, but the BSS won't care because you're only endangering yourself.

Just now, The Happy Nomad said:

You spotted a flaw in somebodies post. Have a coconut.

What flaw would that be?

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Just now, WotEver said:

Indeed.  It's a daft idea, but the BSS won't care because you're only endangering yourself.

Depends whos sleeping in the cabin surely?

 

A coroner/the police might take a different view if you killed a relative or friend sleeping in there.

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Just now, The Happy Nomad said:

Depends whos sleeping in the cabin surely?

 

A coroner/the police might take a different view if you killed a relative or friend sleeping in there.

Yes, that's why I said it's a daft idea.  However, with the BSS only concerned with you endangering other boaters or members of the public, they won't care.

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

THE DAFT THING IS you can spend 6 months cruising and 'living aboard' but if you are not a permanent liveaboard then it doesn't need to comply with the GSIUR, and as the BSS don't require it to be checked anyway so  it would pass the BSS

Yup.  But what's the answer to that?  Include GSIUR regs into the BSS exam?  That'd go down well...

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1 minute ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Depends whos sleeping in the cabin surely?

 

A coroner/the police might take a different view if you killed a relative or friend sleeping in there.

True - but that does nat answer the question about passing the BSS.

 

The guy that 'killed' his girl friend and daughter' by carbon monoxide poisoning was not charged for failing to comply with either the GSIUR or BSS regulations.

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