Locksmith

[The Gravy Boater]

I need a locksmith to add some proper security to my semi-trad... to steel doors front and back (including the sliding hatch) and a large side hatch.  Any recommendations?   I'm on the Shropshire Union.

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, The Gravy Boater said:

I need a locksmith to add some proper security to my semi-trad... to steel doors front and back (including the sliding hatch) and a large side hatch.  Any recommendations?   I'm on the Shropshire Union.

 

Most boats are broken into via large side windows, especially if all other doors appear to be well secured... Must saying. ?

 

Best to get a dog such as a GSD for real security.

[Terryb]

Iv'e just fitted an Enfield type garage door bolt to my hatch. I have to say, it's the doggies danglers. Especially since now, you cant tell if It is locked or unlocked.

[Alan de Enfield]

Is that not just the spider / star type key used in internal doors ?

 

 

 

 

Enfield D613 Garage door key

 

 

[dor]

The fluted indoor keys have six spines.

The Enfield one appears to have four,  and also variations in the length  

[Jen-in-Wellies]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is that not just the spider / star type key used in internal doors ?

 

 

 

 

Enfield D613 Garage door key

 

 

No. They are a proper key with lots of permutations and reasonably hard to pick. Some neighbours use them for their boat. Not like the ones you illustrated for internal doors.

Jen

[Bewildered]

Bolt on with coach bolts or even better get it welded on

[The Gravy Boater]

On 15/06/2020 at 15:50, cuthound said:

 

Most boats are broken into via large side windows, especially if all other doors appear to be well secured... Must saying. ?

 

Best to get a dog such as a GSD for real security.

I found someone to do the work... got quoted an astronomical amount.  I've suggested we do something more basic so we'll see what the response is.  At the end of the day I do have some large windows, so there's no point turning the boat into Fort Knox.

 

I know you all love the doggies here but I don't need the responsibility/worry... not as a solo boater.

2 hours ago, Bewildered said:

Bolt on with coach bolts or even better get it welded on

This was one of the things I was looking at.  Welding rather than bolts makes sense.

Edited June 24, 2020 by The Gravy Boater

[The Gravy Boater]

Regarding INTERNAL SECURITY.  I've been thinking about bolts vs. an inernal padlock hasp. Hear me out...

 

My current plan - as is - inlcudes four bolts securing the doors front and back (including the semi-trad hatch).  I also have the expense of having one of the front doors (which is ill-fitting) reseated to accommodate the bolts.

 

The point of internal security is that you need to be able to bypass it quickly from inside in the event of an emergency.  By the time I'd done all those bolts I could have opened one padlock with a key around my neck.  So why not just have internal padlock hasps and use the same lock you would have used outside to secure the boat from the inside?  At the stern this could easily be done by welding one hasp to the hatch and one to the retaining door.  At the bow it would require cutting some of the wood trim away to expose the steel, either way I wouldn't need to have the door reseated.

 

I also have a large duck hatch that is very securely retained with a single bolt, so that's the third egress option.

 

Thoughts?

[ditchcrawler]

8 minutes ago, The Gravy Boater said:

Regarding INTERNAL SECURITY.  I've been thinking about bolts vs. an inernal padlock hasp. Hear me out...

 

My current plan - as is - inlcudes four bolts securing the doors front and back (including the semi-trad hatch).  I also have the expense of having one of the front doors (which is ill-fitting) reseated to accommodate the bolts.

 

The point of internal security is that you need to be able to bypass it quickly from inside in the event of an emergency.  By the time I'd done all those bolts I could have opened one padlock with a key around my neck.  So why not just have internal padlock hasps and use the same lock you would have used outside to secure the boat from the inside?  At the stern this could easily be done by welding one hasp to the hatch and one to the retaining door.  At the bow it would require cutting some of the wood trim away to expose the steel, either way I wouldn't need to have the door reseated.

 

I also have a large duck hatch that is very securely retained with a single bolt, so that's the third egress option.

 

Thoughts?

Just try that in a smoke filled room, even getting the key in the key hole will take some doing, thats if you can find the padlock

[Terryb]

7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is that not just the spider / star type key used in internal doors ?

 

 

 

 

Enfield D613 Garage door key

 

 

 

[The Gravy Boater]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

Just try that in a smoke filled room, even getting the key in the key hole will take some doing, thats if you can find the padlock

I understand the anxiety which is why I posed the question.  But... as opposed to fiddling with a load of bolts?  Pretty sure I'd be as quick if not quicker with the key around my neck. Or just go out the side hatch.  You are better off guarding against being in that situation in the first place,  which is why I have all the alarms in the world.

[Terryb]

Not the generic design as you'll notice. As secure as it gets to deter all but the naughtiest of nob eds.

[ditchcrawler]

8 hours ago, Terryb said:

Iv'e just fitted an Enfield type garage door bolt to my hatch. I have to say, it's the doggies danglers. Especially since now, you cant tell if It is locked or unlocked.

I like the lock of that

 

[cuthound]

10 hours ago, The Gravy Boater said:

I understand the anxiety which is why I posed the question.  But... as opposed to fiddling with a load of bolts?  Pretty sure I'd be as quick if not quicker with the key around my neck. Or just go out the side hatch.  You are better off guarding against being in that situation in the first place,  which is why I have all the alarms in the world.

 

In a smoke filled boat bolts can be felt for and quickly slid open, unlike padlocks

 

Why not consider a Yale type latch where there are two doors.

 

The Yale side closes against the other door which is held closed by bolts.

 

This is what we have and when the boat is occupied the door with the bolts is locked with one (top) bolt only.

 

That way you don't need a key to get out, and if you are slim you can squeeze out past the bolted door without unbolting it.

[David Mack]

11 hours ago, The Gravy Boater said:

By the time I'd done all those bolts I could have opened one padlock with a key around my neck. 

 

You really think that you (or anyone else on board) will always have the key around your neck? Even in a blind panic in the middle of the night, and the cabin filling with smoke?

You need internal security that doesn't require a key to unlock.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

11 hours ago, Terryb said:

Not the generic design as you'll notice. As secure as it gets to deter all but the naughtiest of nob eds.

Not a good idea to put a picture of your boats key on the internet for the entire world to see. Fortunately, you've only given away two of the four sides for anyone to make a copy and each side is different, so you're safe. Prisons will change the locks for an entire facility if a photo gets out of the keys on an officers fob. Knowing the blank size it is easy to work out the depths of each of the teeth.

Jen

Edited June 25, 2020 by Jen-in-Wellies

[mrsmelly]

59 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

In a smoke filled boat bolts can be felt for and quickly slid open, unlike padlocks

 

Why not consider a Yale type latch where there are two doors.

 

The Yale side closes against the other door which is held closed by bolts.

 

This is what we have and when the boat is occupied the door with the bolts is locked with one (top) bolt only.

 

That way you don't need a key to get out, and if you are slim you can squeeze out past the bolted door without unbolting it.

Ditto.

[David Mack]

2 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Fortunately, you've only given away two of the four sides for anyone to make a copy and each side is different,

So does that mean that only one of the four ways you can insert the key will actually open the lock?

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

So does that mean that only one of the four ways you can insert the key will actually open the lock?

Yes. When I've used one of these keys I will go through three possible ways before getting the right one every time. A bit like pre USB-C plugs, or dropped buttered toast.

Jen

[The Gravy Boater]

48 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

You really think that you (or anyone else on board) will always have the key around your neck? Even in a blind panic in the middle of the night, and the cabin filling with smoke?

You need internal security that doesn't require a key to unlock.

Well if anxiety is high it's not even necessary to lock the padlock... an unlocked padlock on the hasp, or just a bolt through it would secure the door just as well and be much quicker than fumbling around with a load of bolts.  I'm also not convinced about bolts attached to wood.  When you've got steel doors it makes more sense to have a steel-to-steel locking mechanism.

[Nightwatch]

6 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

In a smoke filled boat bolts can be felt for and quickly slid open, unlike padlocks

 

Why not consider a Yale type latch where there are two doors.

 

The Yale side closes against the other door which is held closed by bolts.

 

This is what we have and when the boat is occupied the door with the bolts is locked with one (top) bolt only.

 

That way you don't need a key to get out, and if you are slim you can squeeze out past the bolted door without unbolting it.

Not necessarily a question for any individual, but i have to ask, why lock a boat  securely if you're on it. As suggested, a bolt or a Yale Type catch. Neither of which requires a key in an emergency situation. 

[The Gravy Boater]

13 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Not necessarily a question for any individual, but i have to ask, why lock a boat  securely if you're on it. As suggested, a bolt or a Yale Type catch. Neither of which requires a key in an emergency situation. 

In terms of internal security, all you need is something of an impediment to give you time to react.  Bolts will do it, a padlock hasp with something in it will do it, a yale lock will do it... I don't think a yale lock is any more secure on a door with windows, as someone could break the glass and flip the latch.  In terms of getting out in a hurry it's just about having one thing you can do quickly.  I triggered a few people here with my padlock hasp thing but actually in the case of a door with windows there is no secure internal locking mechanism unless you are prepared to lock it.  I guess the future is probably to be micro-chipped so the exit opens when you approach... like a confused cat.

[Nightwatch]

We also have two JRTs that are security minded.

[The Gravy Boater]

1 hour ago, Nightwatch said:

We also have two JRTs that are security minded.

I would love to have a yappy dog but as previously stipulated I don't need the worry/responsibility as a solo boater.  Maybe I'll be converted at some point... but not yet.